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 Post subject: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is dead
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:56 pm 
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Yesterday 18th November a delegation of Retail Excellence Ireland’s members were informed by the private secretary to the Taoiseach that the government will not be proceeding with legislation to ban upward-only rent reviews in existing commercial leases. The REI members were informed that the promised legislation had encountered substantial constitutional difficulties.

http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2011/ ... ve-ireland’s-upward-only-rent-review-abolition-legislation-revealed/


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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:05 am 
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Constitutional difficulties my ass.

What would they be now?
Go ahead Enda, I dare you, or your patsy Fianna Fail civil servant useless ones, name the sections of the constitution that would be affected?
Go on now, name them.

Anyway that's just me ranting against the general uselessness of this Fine Gael/Labour coalition, probably worse that the last indepents supported coalition since people though that they would be getting something that they were promised.

The bigger issue here is that certain members of the retail industries have signed themselves, like so many other "give me my Nama" types into stupid contracts based on the boom time Ireland predicted by the ESRI etc.

If you're stupid enough to sign up to stupid contracts then you are for sure stupid enough to be able to spend the next number of years paying it off or going bust.
So do it. Instead of Whining, you overcharging group of Retailers, go off and pay your debts according to your contractrs, that you knowingly signned.

Whiners!

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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:21 am 
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This is appalling. I know a number of businesses which are waiting anxiously for this legislation.

The constitutional excuse is absolute horseshit. The legislation was only supposed to be available to businesses in trouble. Is examinership illegal? Is bankruptcy illegal?

What has happened is the banks have called the Government to heel because they own the loans to the landlords. The same has happened with the personal insolvency legislation which is stalled for the guts of a year.

Fuck the lot of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:36 am 
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Of Systemic Importance

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Mom and Pop shops.
All they know is what they do and is dependent upon their pitch on the high street or in a retail\commercial unit and never ever had an opportunity to acquire their unit/shop/whatever; money never came in to it.

I've heard, 2nd hand, of particular tenant in a shopping centre during the boom time bragging that his unit set the rents for the rest of the shopping centre and it probably did in much the same way as phone shops set the rents for the rest of Grafton street. It wasn't a phone shop btw.
As the economy implodes the landlords need to screw the tenants who are still paying and enforce UORR even though turnover for the tenants have fallen through the floor. Mom and Pop business know only their business. Option is to shut up shop, left unemployable in any other profession or try to be optimistic, hope that they aren't unfortunate and can eek out enough to live on by the time the rent is paid.
Getting back to the braggart tenant; he hasn't been paying rent in many many months. The neighbouring units go out of business, he walks away from lease and in to unit of mom and pop business who went out of business months earlier.
that's the story as recounted to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:06 am 
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Too Big to Fail

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Aren't varying the terms of existing contracts always going to be an issue ? However I'm surprised it got this far though someone must have stuck the oar in. Red faces all round I'd reckon.

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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:57 am 
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Hang on.

Was this a retrospective ban on upward-only rents or new legislation?

If it was retrospective, then I can understand why it cant be enforced; It'd be opening the floodgates on renegotiating anything that people cant afford.

They cant rightly ban upward only reviews in future either.
Surely a good solicitor would be all that was required for this?

Actually, thinking about it, perhaps solicitors could be in the firing line?


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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:35 am 
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It was never in the state's interest to introduce this. False promises from politicians, who'da thunk it?

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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:15 pm 
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The removal of UORR was a poorly conceived idea from the start.

For every viable local shop that closes because rents are to high another will open in its place.

It is unfortunate for the shop owner but equally the new shop owner benefits for the closure (no net loss to the Irish economy).

The real beneficaries of the removal of the UORR would have been the foreign multiples (lower rents means higher profits to be returned to their parent)

That is the nature of capitalism.


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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:09 pm 
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Landlord wrote:
That is the nature of capitalism.

it is anything but the nature of capitalism.
In capitalism the tenant or consumer of the product could expect his rent to go up or down as the supply and demand curves go up and down, not be locked in to a 25 year lease agreement after an initial entrapment short lease period which was just long enough to shackle them to their place of business where the cost of the product provided is guaranteed to only go up for the remainder of the lease period.


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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:16 pm 
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Neo Landlord

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crony capitalism

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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:27 pm 
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Isimisims are all cooked in the laboratory of your brain ignorant of the whole but not free of it.

There never has been capitalism as there never has been communism and so on, merely sideshows of ideology mutating grotesque so carnally channeled via hostages inhumane.

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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:03 pm 
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Landlord wrote:
For every viable local shop that closes because rents are to high another will open in its place.


Yes, but not at the same level of rent.

Landlords know all too well that it is not the individual tenant with a payment problem, but the market as a whole.
Kicking the tenant out wont solve the problem, as a lower rent will have to be accepted with a new tenant regardless.

It's not a lower rent that is being sought - it is the market rent.
The market rent has fallen (considerably).

Personally I believe UORR will, in many cases, become irrelevant precisely because of the above scenario.
Unless their tenant is profitable and can afford current rent and future UORRs, the landlord has to accept the reality that rents have fallen.
So there are two choices, keep with the existing tenant, throwing UORRs out the window and accept a lower rent, or kick them out and get a new tenant ... at a reduced rent anyway.

As there is an excess of retail and commercial space, along with the expectation of dire trading conditions ahead, it will prove practically impossible to include UORRs within any modern rental contract.


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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:08 pm 
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Landlord wrote:
The removal of UORR was a poorly conceived idea from the start.

For every viable local shop that closes because rents are to high another will open in its place.

It is unfortunate for the shop owner but equally the new shop owner benefits for the closure (no net loss to the Irish economy).

The real beneficaries of the removal of the UORR would have been the foreign multiples (lower rents means higher profits to be returned to their parent)

That is the nature of capitalism.


Thats the nature of pure bollox. Thats what that is nothing more. Pure unadulterated bullshit that has pervaded the mainstay of thinking across commercial classes so to speak. Ireland resembles nothing but a dogs dinner. NAMA is a luxury that no one can afford.

The dust has not settled becasue the chips have not yet fallen.

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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:23 pm 
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The farce continues.


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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:03 pm 
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The constitutional difficulty is that it would render NAMA bankrupt and therefore the state...

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