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 Post subject: Re: Whats wrong with this picture?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:25 am 
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Fingers wrote:
the burbs wrote:
But also, I wouldn't have used a comma after residents I would have used a semi colon. :)


And you would've been incorrect.

Really? Is a comma right?


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 Post subject: Re: Whats wrong with this picture?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:48 am 
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the burbs wrote:
Fingers wrote:
the burbs wrote:
But also, I wouldn't have used a comma after residents I would have used a semi colon. :)


And you would've been incorrect.

Really? Is a comma right?


In this case, yes. You could only use a semi-colon for sentences like this if the part following the semi-colon could stand on its own as a sentence. "Wealthy landowners who opposed a united Ireland" cannot stand on its own as a sentence. Therefore a comma is required.


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 Post subject: Re: Whats wrong with this picture?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:54 am 
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Is the history wrong or the grammar?

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 Post subject: Re: Whats wrong with this picture?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:03 pm 
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Neo Landlord

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Fingers wrote:
the burbs wrote:
Fingers wrote:
the burbs wrote:
But also, I wouldn't have used a comma after residents I would have used a semi colon. :)


And you would've been incorrect.

Really? Is a comma right?


In this case, yes. You could only use a semi-colon for sentences like this if the part following the semi-colon could stand on its own as a sentence. "Wealthy landowners who opposed a united Ireland" cannot stand on its own as a sentence. Therefore a comma is required.

Thanks. I thought a semi colon was used to identify the part you referred to in the first part of the sentence. Eek I've been using it like that for years.


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 Post subject: Re: Whats wrong with this picture?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:22 pm 
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The only thing I see wrong with it is the suggestion that owners of Big Houses were by definition opposed to an independent Ireland. Half the rebels in Irish nationalist history were wealthy landowners and/or inhabitants of des-reses.


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 Post subject: Re: Whats wrong with this picture?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:46 pm 
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Larry wrote:
The only thing I see wrong with it is the suggestion that owners of Big Houses were by definition opposed to an independent Ireland. Half the rebels in Irish nationalist history were wealthy landowners and/or inhabitants of des-reses.


Quite a big deal for a museum, also it infers that the burnings were done to drive opponents of Independence out when in reality a huge portion of the burnings were done during the civil war.

Learn from the past, the victors write history, people swallow what they are told & the masses generally crush the minority.

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 Post subject: Re: Whats wrong with this picture?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:43 pm 
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Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
Larry wrote:
The only thing I see wrong with it is the suggestion that owners of Big Houses were by definition opposed to an independent Ireland. Half the rebels in Irish nationalist history were wealthy landowners and/or inhabitants of des-reses.


Quite a big deal for a museum, also it infers that the burnings were done to drive opponents of Independence out when in reality a huge portion of the burnings were done during the civil war.

Learn from the past, the victors write history, people swallow what they are told & the masses generally crush the minority.


I don't really see a conflict between the time that the violence occurred and the reason that is said to have caused the violence. I am sure there were people who remained opposed to independence even after an Irish Free State was achieved. There is also the fact that many people didn't consider the Free State as full Irish Independence. I would give the museum kudos for acknowledging that violence was visited upon these people. I would imagine that a number of those people who were burned out of their homes, suffered because of non-political reasons though, wrapped in the blanket of ideology.

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 Post subject: Re: Whats wrong with this picture?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:21 pm 
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There were several reasons for burning manor houses.

Most of those burned before the truce were as a result of a policy of counter-reprisal.

An ambush would take place, as a reprisal the british would burn a village or (more usually) a creamery. The IRA let it be known that two manor houses would be burned for each creamery. The practice all but died out.

The other burnings before the truce were in order to deny barracks to british army or auxilary units. The rural RIC stations in many areas had been destroyed so in order to re-establish a presence in these areas manor houses and other buildings such as workhouses were occupied and fortified. when the IRA saw this they burned such building pre-emptivly.

Some houses were burned because of the loyalist opinions of the owner and suspicions of active cooperation with the security forces.



Why the increase during the civil war?

Firstly the scale of destruction of all types of property during the civil war was many orders of magnitude higher than during the war of independence. The country "was wrecked from end to end"

Secondly, those house which had been fortifed were taken over by IRA units, some pro-treaty, some anti-treaty. When the anti-treaty side started to retreat they burned any barracks or houses before they left.

Thirdly because the scene was now set for a land-grab by the peasants. Its a lot harder for the current landowner to enforce his rights if he is first driven overseas. Many, who had never dreamed that the brits might actually pull out, got involved for the first time. They didn't have the stomach for taking on an empire at poor odds. However they now fancied themselves against paddy-up-the-road in a fight over the spoils.

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 Post subject: Re: Whats wrong with this picture?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:57 pm 
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Puck may be Famous wrote:
Thirdly because the scene was now set for a land-grab by the peasants. Its a lot harder for the current landowner to enforce his rights if he is first driven overseas. Many, who had never dreamed that the brits might actually pull out, got involved for the first time. They didn't have the stomach for taking on an empire at poor odds. However they now fancied themselves against paddy-up-the-road in a fight over the spoils.


The land grab was not just against the big houses, several property owners and their families who had nothing do either pro or anti treaty movement were killed or driven out by local thugs who then settled the property. In one case in a parish near me a family, a farming family was murdered and their bodies dumped down a well that was covered up. The descendants of the murderers still own the land. Also the fire at the custom house and four courts destroyed a lot of title records to mask the looting that went on at the Irish states foundation.

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 Post subject: Re: Whats wrong with this picture?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:17 am 
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What does it say about the media, how history is taught and about people questioning what they are told?

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 Post subject: Re: Whats wrong with this picture?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:02 am 
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Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
What does it say about the media, how history is taught and about people questioning what they are told?


History is written by the winners. The state founding myths taught in school were used to justify the power grab and the institutions built up around those in power, but very few question why they co-opt the majority of people into their schemes and skim off the top.

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Some writers have so confounded society with government, as to leave little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only different, but have different origins. Society is produced by our wants, and government by our wickedness; the former promotes our happiness Positively by uniting our affections, the latter negatively by restraining our vices. The one encourages intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is a patron, the last a punisher. Thomas Paine


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 Post subject: Re: Whats wrong with this picture?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:58 am 
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BoyRacer wrote:
Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
What does it say about the media, how history is taught and about people questioning what they are told?


History is written by the winners. The state founding myths taught in school were used to justify the power grab and the institutions built up around those in power, but very few question why they co-opt the majority of people into their schemes and skim off the top.

Hoocudanode, Dev was the original Robert Mugabe...

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 Post subject: Re: Whats wrong with this picture?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:15 pm 
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yoganmahew wrote:
BoyRacer wrote:
Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
What does it say about the media, how history is taught and about people questioning what they are told?


History is written by the winners. The state founding myths taught in school were used to justify the power grab and the institutions built up around those in power, but very few question why they co-opt the majority of people into their schemes and skim off the top.

Hoocudanode, Dev was the original Robert Mugabe...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Land ... ecree_1920

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Some writers have so confounded society with government, as to leave little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only different, but have different origins. Society is produced by our wants, and government by our wickedness; the former promotes our happiness Positively by uniting our affections, the latter negatively by restraining our vices. The one encourages intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is a patron, the last a punisher. Thomas Paine


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 Post subject: Re: Whats wrong with this picture?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:26 pm 
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Ireland - land of Thieves and Thuggery

That's what's wrong here and the picture is the proof of it.

Right now the thieves in big government and the banks and europe corporate are setting about stealing peoples property rights again through imposition of taxes.
And yes, property taxes are an outright theft.
Like that you should have to pay for something that you own.
Like that they might make us pay for the water that comes out of our own lands.
Or that they might make us pay for the air that flows around us.

Free Ireland my arse. Any of a good sort were shot or pushed to the sidelines during the last civil war.

The useless politicians voted in the last time promised and said one thing then did and do the exact same. Little useless good for nothings and the best policies that they can come up with is the Household charge and more taxes.

Useless. Useless little Thieves and Thugs.

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