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 Post subject: Re: The Irish Casey Serin Strikes!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:09 am 
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Too Big to Fail

Joined: Sep 25, 2007
Posts: 3741
gronlander wrote:
His point being (I think) that fraud was so popular and acceptable in the circles he moved in, that he doesn't see why he should have to go to prison if no one else will.


Actually, Lynn makes a fair point here. The Lynn case was headline news in Ireland, for a few days, but I'd wager it was not even mentioned in despatches by the international financial news media. Although the more attentive and savvier international investors in Irish banking shares might have noted the case, and drawn conclusions about the underwriting standards of Irish banks. If they were smart, they could have jumped ship before the rest and sold their Irish bank shares close to the top (even in late '07, Irish bank shares were not down by that much on peak).

The head bankers and their buddies the head regulators have completely and utterly shafted the reputation of Ireland internationally. Lynn is just a small player - as the title says, the Irish Casey Serin. His misdeeds, such as they are, are of no systemic importance, apart from what they suggest regarding poor controls and low underwriting standards in Irish credit institutions.


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 Post subject: Re: The Irish Casey Serin Strikes!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:43 pm 
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Too Big to Fail

Joined: Aug 4, 2007
Posts: 4610
Location: Ahernistan
gronlander wrote:
Misleadingly headlined. The scare quote:
"I was told "Fuck the small investors, pay back the banks.""

...was actually:
"I felt the establishment was telling me..."Fuck the small investors, pay back the banks.""

...it's a fairly important distinction, since Michael Lynn's feelings and perceptions at the time were not neccessarily reflected by reality.

It's disturbing how often he refers to himself in the third person, especially in the second article. He sees no reason he should go to prison, although he is apparently willing to do 2-3 months. His point being (I think) that fraud was so popular and acceptable in the circles he moved in, that he doesn't see why he should have to go to prison if no one else will.

Oh, and also, he reckons his property fund "Kendar" would have worked if people hadn't looked so hard at it. And he blames the banks for getting cold feet. If they had just looked the other way, everything would have been just fine.

One of his lines must worry banksters though:
"I've thought of returning to Ireland, to face up to my responsibilities, and the responsibilities of others ."


For Reference:

Quote:
Profile of the Sociopath

This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.

* Glibness and Superficial Charm

* Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

* Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

* Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

* Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

* Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

* Incapacity for Love

* Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

* Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

* Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

* Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

* Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

* Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

* Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

* Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

Other Related Qualities:

1. Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
2. Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
3. Authoritarian
4. Secretive
5. Paranoid
6. Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
7. Conventional appearance
8. Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
9. Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
10. Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
11. Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
12. Incapable of real human attachment to another
13. Unable to feel remorse or guilt
14. Extreme narcissism and grandiose
15. May state readily that their goal is to rule the world


(The above traits are based on the psychopathy checklists of H. Cleckley and R. Hare.)

_________________
"Mr Kelly said Ireland’s “reputational capital” had been damaged by “chancers” such as ex-Anglo Irish Bank chairman Seán FitzPatrick, who had been abetted by “buffoons” such as former financial regulator Patrick Neary, Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan and the Taoiseach." - Irish Times 13th Jan 2009

"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." (Catherine Aird)


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 Post subject: Re: The Irish Casey Serin Strikes!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:49 pm 
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Joined: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 22471
Location: Over Macho Grande? I don't think I'll ever be over Macho Grande...
fishfoodie wrote:
Quote:
1. Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
2. Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
3. Authoritarian
4. Secretive
5. Paranoid
6. Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
7. Conventional appearance
8. Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
9. Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
10. Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
11. Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
12. Incapable of real human attachment to another
13. Unable to feel remorse or guilt
14. Extreme narcissism and grandiose
15. May state readily that their goal is to rule the world

(The above traits are based on the psychopathy checklists of H. Cleckley and R. Hare.)


Sounds like an Austrian Economist to me! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: The Irish Casey Serin Strikes!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:50 pm 
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Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Jun 9, 2008
Posts: 5063
fishfoodie wrote:
Quote:
Profile of the Sociopath

This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.

* Glibness and Superficial Charm

* Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

* Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

* Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

* Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

* Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

* Incapacity for Love

* Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

* Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

* Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

* Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

* Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

* Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

* Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

* Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

Other Related Qualities:

1. Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
2. Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
3. Authoritarian
4. Secretive
5. Paranoid
6. Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
7. Conventional appearance
8. Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
9. Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
10. Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
11. Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
12. Incapable of real human attachment to another
13. Unable to feel remorse or guilt
14. Extreme narcissism and grandiose
15. May state readily that their goal is to rule the world


(The above traits are based on the psychopathy checklists of H. Cleckley and R. Hare.)


So that explains fianna fail, and half the country.

_________________
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 Post subject: Michael Lynn interview on RTE
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:28 pm 
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Single Home Owner

Joined: Oct 27, 2008
Posts: 154
Location: Dublin
I believe Michael Lynn was interviewed on RTE Radio yesterday, but I can't get my hands on a copy of the interview.

Has anyone come across it?

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 Post subject: Re: Michael Lynn interview on RTE
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:36 pm 
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Single Home Owner

Joined: Oct 27, 2008
Posts: 154
Location: Dublin
Apparently the interview was with the Mail but Marian Finnucane played some of it as well, see here. There are partial quotes on the site, not sure where they came from.

“I can’t return until I have the investors absolutely secured,” he said. He also indicated he was willing to go to prison for “one month, two months, three months”, though he added that he did not see why he should.

“I wouldn’t see any reason why I would have to go to prison and the one thing I want to make clear is that I am not going to be a scapegoat for others,” he said.

“I am not going to be used as an example of what was recognised as an acceptable form and practice of business by bankers, lawyers, accountants and auctioneers. I am not going to be the poster boy who ends up in prison to my cost alone.”

The Law society has given a response to the interview in yesterday's Times as well.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...867938419.html

I still can't find the interview itself online though.

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http://www.OverseasCafe.com Ireland's Overseas Property Portal


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 Post subject: Re: Michael Lynn interview on RTE
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:03 pm 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Jan 5, 2008
Posts: 1587
Location: Dublin
a 'scapegoat' for bankers? what spin!

he won't be a scapegoat for them, he'll be a criminal who robbed a lot of innocent people and goes to jail.
there is a difference


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 Post subject: Re: Michael Lynn interview on RTE
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:17 pm 
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Of Systemic Importance
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Joined: Nov 7, 2006
Posts: 5308
Location: Cloud 9
MortgageBroker wrote:
a 'scapegoat' for bankers? what spin!

he won't be a scapegoat for them, he'll be a criminal who robbed a lot of innocent people and goes to jail.
there is a difference

I believe his point is that was standard practice so why should he be the fall guy. Perhaps he could write a very interesting expose.

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Need to save a few bob?
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 Post subject: Re: Michael Lynn interview on RTE
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:55 pm 
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Joined: Jan 26, 2009
Posts: 346
Location: Outside the Comfort Zone
Another reason why we need plea bargaining in Ireland. Offer him a reduced sentence in return for bringing in a few big fish.


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 Post subject: Re: Michael Lynn interview on RTE
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:05 pm 
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Too Big to Fail

Joined: Oct 3, 2008
Posts: 3015
Quote:
whizzbang wrote:
I believe his point is that was standard practice so why should he be the fall guy. Perhaps he could write a very interesting expose.




I stand to be corrected here but one of his crimes was signing documents to say that there was no existing mortgage on properties he was applying for mortgages on - what was standard practice was that funds were drawn down without the banks doing checks to ensure that this was the case, it was worked on a "trust" basis between solicitors and banks.
He's no fall guy - he's a thief.


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 Post subject: Re: Michael Lynn interview on RTE
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:24 pm 
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Joined: Jun 24, 2008
Posts: 9985
Location: South of the Border (Down Mexico Way)
"BeTheHokey" scanned and posted thumbnail links to the newspaper interview:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3911&p=208406#p208406


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 Post subject: Re: Michael Lynn interview on RTE
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:25 pm 
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Real Estate Developer

Joined: Oct 4, 2008
Posts: 935
onestepbehind wrote:
Quote:
whizzbang wrote:
I believe his point is that was standard practice so why should he be the fall guy. Perhaps he could write a very interesting expose.




I stand to be corrected here but one of his crimes was signing documents to say that there was no existing mortgage on properties he was applying for mortgages on - what was standard practice was that funds were drawn down without the banks doing checks to ensure that this was the case, it was worked on a "trust" basis between solicitors and banks.
He's no fall guy - he's a thief.


+1

He may not have been alone but to say it was standard practice.....


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 Post subject: Re: Michael Lynn interview on RTE
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:53 pm 
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Posts: 9985
Location: South of the Border (Down Mexico Way)
Rachel English sat in to present for Marian Finucane:
http://dynamic.rte.ie/quickaxs/209-rte- ... unday.smil (RealPlayer Required)

Michael Lynn bit at 0:34:18


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 Post subject: Re: Michael Lynn interview on RTE
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:58 pm 
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Joined: Oct 27, 2008
Posts: 480
onestepbehind wrote:
Quote:
I stand to be corrected here but one of his crimes was signing documents to say that there was no existing mortgage on properties he was applying for mortgages on - what was standard practice was that funds were drawn down without the banks doing checks to ensure that this was the case, it was worked on a "trust" basis between solicitors and banks.
He's no fall guy - he's a thief.


I think he was telling the Mail that the banks knew what he was up to and turned a blind eye to him mortgaging properties to multiple lenders. If, big IF, that's true, it shows an incredible level of irresponsibility in the banks.

If he has proof, the plea bargain idea could yield amazing results. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Michael Lynn interview on RTE
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:27 pm 
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Too Big to Fail

Joined: Aug 4, 2007
Posts: 4610
Location: Ahernistan
Lefournier wrote:
onestepbehind wrote:
Quote:
I stand to be corrected here but one of his crimes was signing documents to say that there was no existing mortgage on properties he was applying for mortgages on - what was standard practice was that funds were drawn down without the banks doing checks to ensure that this was the case, it was worked on a "trust" basis between solicitors and banks.
He's no fall guy - he's a thief.


I think he was telling the Mail that the banks knew what he was up to and turned a blind eye to him mortgaging properties to multiple lenders. If, big IF, that's true, it shows an incredible level of irresponsibility in the banks.

If he has proof, the plea bargain idea could yield amazing results. 8)


There isn't a snowballs chance in hell of this being true.

The banks may have some real gobshites, but even these tulips know that you don't give loans on full value of a house & secure it on 1/5th of the house :shock:

Look, this guy is a thief, a fraudster & a gutless coward, & the admins can feel free to give my details to him if he wants to take me to court for stating those self-evident FACTS !!!

_________________
"Mr Kelly said Ireland’s “reputational capital” had been damaged by “chancers” such as ex-Anglo Irish Bank chairman Seán FitzPatrick, who had been abetted by “buffoons” such as former financial regulator Patrick Neary, Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan and the Taoiseach." - Irish Times 13th Jan 2009

"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." (Catherine Aird)


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