.


Way too cynical. Government here and everywhere else is responsible for much of what is civilised about civilised societies. The welfare state, for example, didnt come out of thin air. There are, and always have been, good people in politics trying to make things better for ordinary citizens.

Yeah, it came out of the appeasement of the labour movement and class struggle, little enough to do with government in the sense you meant it.

Skipping back a page or two, in relation to how I regard those in NE, kind of depends on their actions. Those who lorded up their "wealth" in a showoffy way (eg, I remember some ahole dropping the keys of the new range rover on a coffee table and thinking prick) I regard as asshoes then and assholes now that I just cant summon up the slightest sympathy for.

For most though I just feel sadness. In my experience as an accountant, the vast majority of people dont appreciate what a house is worth financially. There is simply the cost and whether you can finance it or not. I just feel sad at the extent of misery that has been heaped upon people through wilful manipulation of their ignorance, or innocence however you want to regard it.

But fuck when I read about MOR and a bailout fund I just want to vomit. There are tried and tested ways of banks dealing with this stuff. You work out the loan, get the max possible. There is no one size fits all solution. At the end of the day, the banks will not hand out soft deals no matter what some of the posters here think (although if you think anything other than bankruptcy is soft then I'm mistaken). It's money and trying to achieve the best outcome. Politicise the process and immediately the solution is fucked.

At the end of the day, NE isnt the end of the world economically. Blanket guaranteeing the banks liabilities and running an ongoing deficit of 20B+ a year is. And that is really what depresses me about the system. It is broken.

But the sun is shining and on the bright side maybe TUGs long standing thought that the sov debt will eventually be forgiven (or haircut or worked out or whatver you want to call it) will be the eventual outcome.

You don't sound all that grumpy...

If life seems jolly rotten, there's something you've forgotten
And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing
When you're feeling in the dumps, don't be silly, chumps
Just purse your lips and whistle, that's the thing

So, always look on the bright side of death
Just before you draw your terminal breath

Maybe elsewhere they are but have you ever had a look at the current government cabinet and what they have done to this country and you call them civilised!?
Theres an advert on TV for someone like you Rick and it ends with "should've gone to specsavers"

This is the most entertaining thread i've read in months (i've noted that this was originally posted back in March but only got around to reading it today)

I've been a lurker on here since last November but first time poster. I'm grateful to most contributors on here for both humour and sense. If it wasn't for the pin I may not have withdrawn an offer on a 1-bed shoe-box in Dublin north city centre back in January this year (I nearly lost my hand with the offer - i'm a fool, but a lucky fool). I have since seen several more similar sized shoe boxes go up on daft for about 15% less and quite frankly don't give a crap about smugness that may be perceived on here.



I think you are confusing smugness with bitterness of people having to swallow a debt-pill caused by other peoples mistakes of buying during the peak and yet still have to listen to these same people complaining about how they are not being bailed out.
I personally love Larrys response.
I tended to keep quite during such dinner party discussions on property (as i didn't know enough to argue one side or the other) but distinctly remember anyone who tried to voice that the bubble is going to burst etc being branded sensationalist and the counter argument was that you can't go too wrong with property, rent is dead money... yadda yadda.

Its only human nature to feel a little smug when eventually proved right. I was maybe a fool to put on offer on a place that with a little bit of research I should have known would "probably" drop in value however it is still an offer that was well under salary*3. Carol on the other hand was a complete idiot to buy a house if it meant that she thought there was no chance of it dropping, no chance of getting a pay reduction and she clearly went into it thinking she could sell it off down the line with a profit.

I have a certain amount of sympathy but little. A colleague of mine (first time buyer) just put an offer down on a 4bed in Naas of almost 450K (a beautiful house but without doubt an extortionate price). I have referred this site and warned and warned and warned how this is way too much and also dangerous considering its proportion to his salary, however it has fallen on deaf ears. I won't be feeling smug about it if it all ends in tears and will be there to support but this is just an example the mindset of so many people in Ireland.

As Calina pointed out the same people are "advising" on buying now as house prices will never be so cheap again..... Maybe the "smugness" of those who were smart enough not to buy during the boom needs to be upped a gear or two until the point gets across.

Excellent stuff Smurf, probably the best first post I've ever read round here...

It's kind of hard to be smug when you end up paying for the mistakes of others. No, smug is not the emotion I feel. Anger yes!
It's interesting though that those who are seen not be in huge debt are now being turned on in a way. Matt Cooper started the ball rolling.http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/article7140211.ece and here is the thread discussing that http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30904&hilit=smug+dumb+luck
How can I be smug? I'm paying up and Carol Hunt wants me to pay for the fact that her house went down in value and not up as she had hoped,thus paving the way for her to trade up.Carol lives in Dublin 1 and doesn't want to,it's as simple as that.

Careful, he'll be a smug git in no time!

Too late!! <--me
Thanks for that spudnick

+1 Good post by the way, also what about Moral hazard? If we pay for the over exuberence and stupidity of others will they not just do it again and again in the expectation that they will be bailed out because "sure everybody knows they cant manage their finances and its not their fault"
This is f***ing madness and stupidity, there should be summary justice for the politicians and the idiots who want this.

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My irony detector just exploded.