'If this is signed, it's like signing away the Irish economy for the next ten years,' he concludes.

It is also the inevitable result of guaranteeing the debts of insolvent banks. The dogs on the 'pin knew, not just suspected, but knew on a rational basis of a collapsing property bubble given the exposure of the banks to property, the banks were insolvent. There's a thread on each of them from early-mid 2008.

The stock markets certainly knew; how else do you explain the share price slide?

Yet a blanket guarantee was imposed and supported... tay and garlic have a lot to answer for.

In Mr. McWilliam's defence, if a resolution of the banks had swiftly followed the guarantee, perhaps the fallout wouldn't be so bad, but it didn't and it still hasn't. That is always a risk when dealing with can kickers and incompetents.

I thought that when they annouced the guarantee.

I thought that when they annouced the inital amount to bail out Anglo.

I thought that when they annouced the "final" amount to bail out the banks.

These guys are fucking muppets who could agree to anything and then swear blind it was the best deal on offer and not taking it would have dire consequences, blah, blah, blah.

Any IR over 3% is trying to push water uphill - unless they are planning a massive negotiation coup, and knocking the Greek deal out of the park (skills they haven't shown so far!) then any number north of 3 is a failure.

We went through the looking glass a long time ago.

+1 WGU. There really is no indication that the Irish government has a coherent strategy or that they are acting in the interest of the people.

I assume the 6.7% is a prelude for a default announcement on Sunday night. It has to be.

Sunday night? Meaning we're pulling out of the Euro, bank account controls to be put in place, etc? I can't see that (at least I hope you're wrong) so soon but "6.7% was the best on offer and so we're defaulting....."

Cant see us defaulting, not a notion.
If the 2 brians default on Sunday night, I will forgive them for everything.
Sunday night will decide for me whether I re load on ammunition and head out to eastern Europe to learn some new skills or just get the flock out of here....

I'm not buying 6.7%. It simply does not make any sense for anyone.

And really, September 29th 2008 wasn't the problem (I am not entirely unwilling to accept that the vista was too appalling that night for less than what they did). The problem is what in the name of electrical jumpin' Jesus they were doing for the 6 months before that. Did they really not know Anglo was fucked during those 6 months? I made my parents take their life savings out of Irish banks in Spring '08, and my economics knowledge stretches to a B in leaving cert economics back in the dark ages of the last millennium. And they didn't see it? That stretches credulity to beyond breaking point for me.

Inclined to agree. Sub 6% most likely, imo.

No, I've changed my mind. I don't know wtf is going on.

An odd viewpoint, perhaps, but is it possible that the movers and shakers in Germany etc are merely trying to push the country into taking the default option thus solving any potential future political problems at home?

They have worn you down . The rate will be low . They have to get something right at some stage of their miserable existance . They also have the expertise of Honohan at hand .

How will they clean up the banks ? I guess there will be a NAMA for small distressed loans / mortgages .

Eamon Ryan on RTE Radio now saying Greece only borrowed for 3 years and we should borrow for longer - because of that we will be paying more than Greece (5.2%) but less than the 6.7% "being bandied about".

I'm not worn down - I just couldn't give a shit about whether it's 6.7 or 5.2 - anything over 3 is debt upon debt with interest on the interest.

Moore McDowell on about the treaty of Versailles.

Give us a wave Moore.

maybe they want us to default

namawinelake just tweeted this: