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 Post subject: Ron Paul - Considerations on the meaning of life etcetera
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:23 pm 
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Has to be the weirdest audience reaction ever one minute they are booing him for saying don't go to war, then in the space of a few minutes they are cheering when he talks about bringing the troops home.



Ron Paul on abortion and liberty -> http://files.meetup.com/504095/Ron%20Pa ... iberty.pdf

Ron Paul Defended: South Carolina Debate Crowd Protests CNN 'Censorship -> http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/285094/ ... on-cnn.htm

Quote:
In a big turnaround from Ron Paul's first debate in South Carolina, where the Texas congressman was booed by the audience for advocating the "golden rule" of statesmanship, last night's audience took to Paul's defense when moderator John King tried to switch the topic away from abortion without letting Paul answer the question.
'John, I'm a doctor!'
In the closing minutes of the CNN debate, the conversation turned to the subject of abortion.
Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum were all given a chance to defend their pro-life stance, and began to bicker amongst each other about which position was the strongest and the most sincere.
But when it came time for Rep. Paul to speak, which the Texas congressman very obviously wanted to do, moderator John King attempted to move on to another topic.
"All right, let's take another question," King said. Let's take a question now from social media..."
The audience at the second debate was having none of it.

there is more

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Some writers have so confounded society with government, as to leave little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only different, but have different origins. Society is produced by our wants, and government by our wickedness; the former promotes our happiness Positively by uniting our affections, the latter negatively by restraining our vices. The one encourages intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is a patron, the last a punisher. Thomas Paine


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul Watch or Vigil?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:10 pm 
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BoyRacer wrote:
Ron Paul on abortion and liberty -> http://files.meetup.com/504095/Ron%20Pa ... iberty.pdf

Ron Paul wrote:
Medically and scientifically the argument is not whether a human life exists immediately after conception. It does.
...
If anyone thinks it through, the decision must be made to protect life from conception or allow abortion up to the moment before birth.
...
The unwritten commitment to the life conceived occurs at the time of conception. If we don’t accept this proposition, the basis for personal responsibility for all acts, the key to a free society, is destroyed.
No morning after pill for Ron Paul.
For this brand of libertarianism, you should only have (potentially procreative) sex if you're prepared to carry the child to term.
The contraceptive failed? Tough luck, you have a duty of care to the zygote.


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul Watch or Vigil?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:31 pm 
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ex-Patrick wrote:
BoyRacer wrote:
Ron Paul on abortion and liberty -> http://files.meetup.com/504095/Ron%20Pa ... iberty.pdf

Ron Paul wrote:
Medically and scientifically the argument is not whether a human life exists immediately after conception. It does.
...
If anyone thinks it through, the decision must be made to protect life from conception or allow abortion up to the moment before birth.
...
The unwritten commitment to the life conceived occurs at the time of conception. If we don’t accept this proposition, the basis for personal responsibility for all acts, the key to a free society, is destroyed.
No morning after pill for Ron Paul.
For this brand of libertarianism, you should only have (potentially procreative) sex if you're prepared to carry the child to term.
The contraceptive failed? Tough luck, you have a duty of care to the zygote.


I've always wondered what's so special about being born. Children are still dependent, so should be disposable until age 16.

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"If something cannot go on forever, it will stop" – Herbert Stein


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul Watch or Vigil?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:38 pm 
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ex-Patrick wrote:
BoyRacer wrote:
Ron Paul on abortion and liberty -> http://files.meetup.com/504095/Ron%20Pa ... iberty.pdf

Ron Paul wrote:
Medically and scientifically the argument is not whether a human life exists immediately after conception. It does.
...
If anyone thinks it through, the decision must be made to protect life from conception or allow abortion up to the moment before birth.
...
The unwritten commitment to the life conceived occurs at the time of conception. If we don’t accept this proposition, the basis for personal responsibility for all acts, the key to a free society, is destroyed.
No morning after pill for Ron Paul.
For this brand of libertarianism, you should only have (potentially procreative) sex if you're prepared to carry the child to term.
The contraceptive failed? Tough luck, you have a duty of care to the zygote.


Yes, it is tough luck, you have a duty of care to the child.

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"The direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem of limited resources that it is commonly only employed by small children and great nations." David Friedman.

''Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it'' Thomas Sowell.


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul Watch or Vigil?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:41 pm 
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And tough titties if the child is very sick and the insurance company fucks you over.


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul Watch or Vigil?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:51 pm 
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woger wrote:
And tough titties if the child is very sick and the insurance company fucks you over.

don't worry, if the illness was caused by pollution you can sue the polluter; provided you have the resources and can prove the cause of the death/illness


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul Watch or Vigil?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:01 pm 
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Mossy_Heneberry wrote:
ex-Patrick wrote:
No morning after pill for Ron Paul.
For this brand of libertarianism, you should only have (potentially procreative) sex if you're prepared to carry the child to term.
The contraceptive failed? Tough luck, you have a duty of care to the zygote.


Yes, it is tough luck, you have a duty of care to the child.
Have you ever had a one-night stand with a member of the opposite sex?
If so, did you draw up a contract with this person to delineate each party's rights and responsibilities in the event of a contraceptive mishap?


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul Watch or Vigil?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:15 pm 
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I think that most Libertarians are pro choice.

Ron Paul's views on abortion may come more from his medical backround and his literal interpretation of the hipocratic oath.

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"By a continuing process of inflation, government can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens.- John Maynard Keynes, Economic Consequences of Peace


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul Watch or Vigil?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:39 pm 
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ex-Patrick wrote:
Mossy_Heneberry wrote:
ex-Patrick wrote:
No morning after pill for Ron Paul.
For this brand of libertarianism, you should only have (potentially procreative) sex if you're prepared to carry the child to term.
The contraceptive failed? Tough luck, you have a duty of care to the zygote.


Yes, it is tough luck, you have a duty of care to the child.
Have you ever had a one-night stand with a member of the opposite sex?
If so, did you draw up a contract with this person to delineate each party's rights and responsibilities in the event of a contraceptive mishap?



If your good enough to do the deed, then your good enough to face up to your responsibilities.

_________________
"The direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem of limited resources that it is commonly only employed by small children and great nations." David Friedman.

''Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it'' Thomas Sowell.


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul Watch or Vigil?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:17 pm 
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Puck may be Famous wrote:
I think that most Libertarians are pro choice.

Ron Paul's views on abortion may come more from his medical backround and his literal interpretation of the hipocratic oath.


Oh please, his medical background, gimme a break. Like all of these conservative/GOP US politicians Paul realizes that tea partiers and other extreme right white people will not tolerate anything other than a fundamentalist view of abortion. You will find it very difficult now to find a pro choice republican in office in this country. The liberal wing of the republican party is extinct. Thats why Paul is a fundamentalist, even if he might not believe it.

The remains of the East Coast wasp republican party is the only place where you will find any kind of nuanced treatment of the abortion question, and it too is dying. Snow and Collins are the last hold outs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympia_Snowe

Its very simple for Paul, if he wants support from republicans then he needs to be an unwavering supporter of patriarchy and christianity.


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul Watch or Vigil?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:05 pm 
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ditch dweller wrote:
Puck may be Famous wrote:
I think that most Libertarians are pro choice.

Ron Paul's views on abortion may come more from his medical backround and his literal interpretation of the hipocratic oath.


Oh please, his medical background, gimme a break. Like all of these conservative/GOP US politicians Paul realizes that tea partiers and other extreme right white people will not tolerate anything other than a fundamentalist view of abortion. You will find it very difficult now to find a pro choice republican in office in this country. The liberal wing of the republican party is extinct. Thats why Paul is a fundamentalist, even if he might not believe it.

The remains of the East Coast wasp republican party is the only place where you will find any kind of nuanced treatment of the abortion question, and it too is dying. Snow and Collins are the last hold outs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympia_Snowe

Its very simple for Paul, if he wants support from republicans then he needs to be an unwavering supporter of patriarchy and christianity.



So if you're are against abortion you are some sort of Christian fundamentalist?

A lot of black and white thinking there on your behalf.

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"The direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem of limited resources that it is commonly only employed by small children and great nations." David Friedman.

''Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it'' Thomas Sowell.


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul Watch or Vigil?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:07 pm 
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ditch dweller wrote:
Oh please, his medical background, gimme a break. Like all of these conservative/GOP US politicians Paul realizes that tea partiers and other extreme right white people will not tolerate anything other than a fundamentalist view of abortion. You will find it very difficult now to find a pro choice republican in office in this country. The liberal wing of the republican party is extinct. Thats why Paul is a fundamentalist, even if he might not believe it.


Have you not kinda defined anything other than the pro-abortion view to be fundamentalist and extreme right there? What would a "non-fundamentalist non-extreme" pro-life stance look like in your view?

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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul Watch or Vigil?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:36 pm 
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ps200306 wrote:
ditch dweller wrote:
Oh please, his medical background, gimme a break. Like all of these conservative/GOP US politicians Paul realizes that tea partiers and other extreme right white people will not tolerate anything other than a fundamentalist view of abortion. You will find it very difficult now to find a pro choice republican in office in this country. The liberal wing of the republican party is extinct. Thats why Paul is a fundamentalist, even if he might not believe it.


Have you not kinda defined anything other than the pro-abortion view to be fundamentalist and extreme right there? What would a "non-fundamentalist non-extreme" pro-life stance look like in your view?


Isn't the term pro life a bit ridiculous (as is pro choice)? Doesn't it imlpy if you support abortion (even for limitied reasons like rape, incest, health risks) you are somehow pro death, also when you consider the people who were shouting "let him die" at Ron Paul when he was answering the hypothetical question about a person with no insurance consider themselves pro life, probbaly the same people who cheered Rick Perry when he boasted about his death penalty record and are probably creaming themselves to bomb another middle eastern country.
Didn't Santorum come out with some bizarre reasoning thata rape through pregnancy was some gift from god?
Then again some of the"pro choice" people are equally as insane as in extreme cases it's almost a method of birth control.


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul Watch or Vigil?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:04 pm 
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ps200306 wrote:
ditch dweller wrote:
Oh please, his medical background, gimme a break. Like all of these conservative/GOP US politicians Paul realizes that tea partiers and other extreme right white people will not tolerate anything other than a fundamentalist view of abortion. You will find it very difficult now to find a pro choice republican in office in this country. The liberal wing of the republican party is extinct. Thats why Paul is a fundamentalist, even if he might not believe it.


Have you not kinda defined anything other than the pro-abortion view to be fundamentalist and extreme right there? What would a "non-fundamentalist non-extreme" pro-life stance look like in your view?



You need to read back a bit. Paul is saying life begins at conception, about as fundamentalist a position on abortion as it is possible to have. So all this rubbish about 'partial-birth' abortions etc is just more of the same, disinformation and propaganda. Edward Tiller was murdered by wackos who buy into this same shit as Paul.


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul Watch or Vigil?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:15 pm 
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ditch dweller wrote:
You need to read back a bit. Paul is saying life begins at conception, about as fundamentalist a position on abortion as it is possible to have. So all this rubbish about 'partial-birth' abortions etc is just more of the same, disinformation and propaganda. Edward Tiller was murdered by wackos who buy into this same shit as Paul.



Is that the best you can do? Put Paul into the same boat as Edward Tiller and run with that?

That's a logic fallacy - guilt by association.

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"The direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem of limited resources that it is commonly only employed by small children and great nations." David Friedman.

''Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it'' Thomas Sowell.


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