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 Post subject: Re: House Repossession in Laois Stopped Thanks to People Pow
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:31 am 
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Barney Gumble wrote:
Just watched the first 5 seconds of the video - first thing I hear clearly:

"Guards, are you here on your oath today?" ------> Freeman bullshit

Forgive my ignorance but what on earth does that mean?

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 Post subject: Re: House Repossession in Laois Stopped Thanks to People Pow
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:01 am 
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It means to up hold the law and not take sides, if he could question the warrent since it was signed by somebody who could have a conflict of interest then they would have to stop a possible illegal eviction or in simple terms cart off the sheriff to gaol.


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 Post subject: Re: House Repossession in Laois Stopped Thanks to People Pow
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:09 am 
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a quick google...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_oath#Ireland

The oath is part of their argument, which is based on the constitution being > that law being being invoked for the eviction.

(Any knowledgeable legal professionals care to explain if the argument is nonsense or not?)


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 Post subject: Re: House Repossession in Laois Stopped Thanks to People Pow
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:36 am 
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snaps wrote:
(Any knowledgeable legal professionals care to explain if the argument is nonsense or not?)

There is a legal argument in there - I am not certain if the correct procedure was used for dealing with the legal difficulties.
The fact that there was no separation of powers (a constitutional principle) as regards the warrant (because the sheriff was also the registrar). This means that the warrant was legally suspect.
What I am not certain of is whether that was an issue that the Garda should pay any attention to - or whether it was properly an issue for a barrister to bring in court afterwards.

That legal argument was covered with a lot of freeman BS.

The "Guard, are you on your oath" is nonsense from a legal perspective. From a Freeman perspective, I don't know the meaning.

EDIT: thinking about the Garda thing, there is a "this is a civil dispute, I'm off" element to the Garda's actions.


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 Post subject: Re: House Repossession in Laois Stopped Thanks to People Pow
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:43 am 
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The following appears to be Freeman orthodoxy on oaths:

Quote:
Everyone you will encounter, in the "Legal" or "Lawful" worlds, will have taken an Oath in order to claim their 'title'. This includes Judges, Magistrates, Bailiffs, Notaries, Solicitors, Lawyers and ... of course ... Policymen.

Acting within their Oaths, they are what they claim to be. And, in this case, they are all Peace Officers ... because that is what their Oaths state.

Acting outside their Oath, they are not what they claim to be. Acting outside their Oath, they are simply "Joe Soap" (maybe in in some kind of uniform, but Joe Soap nonetheless).

In a Court de jure (Common Law Court), for example, a Judge will be on his Oath. However, as a Judge, he will be offered 'employment' to run Courts de facto (Courts of Arbitrations of disputes). In these Courts, Magistrates and Judges are not on their Oaths. Thus they are not what they claim to be. They are nothing more than Joe Soap.

They can - ALL - be put on their Oaths by saying "I'm putting you on your Oath. Under God, so help me God. Now we have a Contract".

A Judge or Magistrate then has two options. Either to recuse him- or her-self, or to continue under Oath, to PROTECT YOU, and your Rights in Law. They usually choose the former, and so get up and leave the Bench.

A Bailiff or Policyman likewise. Having put a Bailiff on his or her Oath, they become Peace Officers, and are there to PROTECT your Rights. If a Bailiff arrives with a Policyman, put them both on their Oaths. If the Bailiff then proceeds as they do normally ... in other words continues to threaten ... then you can TELL the Policyman to "Arrest that man (woman), and I'm placing him or her into your safe custody". If the Policyman fails to react to that, say: "Who is your boss? I'm going to have you BOTH arrested for pretending to be what you are not."

'Policymen' is Freeman for 'policemen' - part of their hilarious etymology that includes 'berth certificate' ('cos you're legally a boat, or something) and so forth.


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 Post subject: Re: House Repossession in Laois Stopped Thanks to People Pow
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:47 am 
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Utter BS. Jim Corr would be proud.


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 Post subject: Re: House Repossession in Laois Stopped Thanks to People Pow
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:07 am 
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Democracy is essentially mob rule & if enough people want something they will get it - thats how it is supposed to work

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 Post subject: Re: House Repossession in Laois Stopped Thanks to People Pow
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:08 am 
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What parts of it are utter BS?

Just saying it's utter BS is scoffing. It's not addressing why (or what parts) are utter BS. I think its important to challenge this stuff with facts.


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 Post subject: Re: House Repossession in Laois Stopped Thanks to People Pow
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:25 am 
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buddygunz wrote:
Utter BS. Jim Corr would be proud.

Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
Democracy is essentially mob rule & if enough people want something they will get it - thats how it is supposed to work

Or in other words todays BS is tomorrows law.

If handled correctly some good may come out of the freeman movement in reversing some of the removal of rights and freedoms that all governments seem intent on doing. If handled badly there are two possible outcomes, a large number of nutters will screw this country up or more people will lose even more rights.

There are some grains of truth around which they (the freeman movement) are hanging lots of BS. How about dealing with these truths, enforcing them and thereby reducing their rabble power. Win win..........

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 Post subject: Re: House Repossession in Laois Stopped Thanks to People Pow
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:29 am 
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Quote:
"I'm putting you on your Oath. Under God, so help me God. Now we have a Contract".


Well, I'm convinced! :mrgreen:

This is the oath they take:
Quote:

-I will faithfully discharge the duties of a member of the Garda Síochána with fairness, integrity, regard for human rights, diligence and impartiality, upholding the Constitution and the laws and according equal respect to all people,

-while I continue to be a member, I will to the best of my skill and knowledge discharge all my duties according to law, and

-I do not belong to, and will not while I remain a member form, belong to or subscribe to, any political party or secret society whatsoever.”.


I do not see how "invoking" the above oath puts someone at an advantage?

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 Post subject: Re: House Repossession in Laois Stopped Thanks to People Pow
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:37 am 
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snaps wrote:
What parts of it are utter BS?

Just saying it's utter BS is scoffing. It's not addressing why (or what parts) are utter BS. I think its important to challenge this stuff with facts.

For Gardai, at a quick glance, this seems pretty good: http://www.indymedia.ie/article/82108
Though, the bit about the Garda not wearing a cap then not being a Garda is wrong. If you are unable to identify that the person is a Garda based on their uniform, you may ask for ID to confirm their identity. They are required to show it to you.

Basically if the Garda has a reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed then they probably have a right to do something about it.
There is a common law power of arrest for breach of the peace, as well as arrest under S4 CLA 97, S30 Offences against the State 1939, S25 Misuse of Drugs Act, S24 Public Order Act and a couple of other powers of arrest.
There are various powers to search also: a common law power to search following arrest, consent of the party, with warrant and 8CLA76
There are various powers to enter premises, 6.1 & 6.2 CLA97,
And there are powers to seize property: S9 CLA 76, S7 CJA06, S5 CJA06.


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 Post subject: Re: House Repossession in Laois Stopped Thanks to People Pow
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:38 am 
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karlos_the_jackal wrote:
I do not see how "invoking" the above oath puts someone at an advantage?

In the case under discussion, I presume it relates to this:
Quote:
A Bailiff or Policyman likewise. Having put a Bailiff on his or her Oath, they become Peace Officers, and are there to PROTECT your Rights. If a Bailiff arrives with a Policyman, put them both on their Oaths. If the Bailiff then proceeds as they do normally ... in other words continues to threaten ... then you can TELL the Policyman to "Arrest that man (woman), and I'm placing him or her into your safe custody". If the Policyman fails to react to that, say: "Who is your boss? I'm going to have you BOTH arrested for pretending to be what you are not."


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 Post subject: Re: House Repossession in Laois Stopped Thanks to People Pow
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:45 am 
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The oath thing could have been to highlight the "upholding the Constitution" bit, it could also have been used like @Barney Gumble said.

I think the argument in the vid was that the constitutional protections trumped the law being invoked by the deputy sheriff.


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 Post subject: Re: House Repossession in Laois Stopped Thanks to People Pow
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:57 am 
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snaps wrote:
The oath thing could have been to highlight the "upholding the Constitution" bit, it could also have been used like @Barney Gumble said.

I think the argument in the vid was that the constitutional protections trumped the law being invoked by the deputy sheriff.

You may be correct, but asking a 'legal' figure for their oath appears to be the standard Freeman opening gambit in any dealing with the forces of law & order;

Quote:
A JUDGE was challenged by a defendant yesterday to produce his oath of office before proceeding with a case being heard at Wexford District Court.

Declaring that he was before the court “under duress”, Bobby Oliver Sludds (29), Ballagh Cove, Enniscorthy, Co Wexford, said Judge David Anderson had no jurisdiction to deal with the case unless he first produced his oath.

“Where did you read that?” asked the judge.

“The Constitution. It says that a judge must offer up his oath when requested and I am asking you, do you have your oath?” said Mr Sludds, before picking up a copy of the Constitution and quoting from it at length.

“This is not a quiz, I ask the questions. I made my oath in front of the Chief Justice and I have no idea if he kept a record or not,” the judge replied.

“Do you speak English or legalese?” replied Mr Sludds, before putting down the Constitution and picking up a copy of Black’s Law Dictionary.

Quoting the precise definition of “summons”, Mr Sludds proceeded to dispute the validity of the summons issued by the court, in which he was charged with a number of motoring offences in Enniscorthy in April 2010.

“These offences are fraudulent and I’m not this Bobby Oliver Sludds you speak of,” he said. “That’s not me and this fictitious claim is a fraud on this court. This is not my name. I’ve been taken here against my will.”

He got banged up until he got real legal advice.


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 Post subject: Re: House Repossession in Laois Stopped Thanks to People Pow
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:22 am 
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Neo Landlord

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I read about that case on boards.ie it sounds like that Sludds guy messed up. The judge can't produce his oath. Unless he carries an tape recorder of him taking the oath into court.

I think the these freemen are an indication (maybe a warning) of more weirdness to come.

There is an underlying sense of social/political disenfranchisement that fuels these movements.


Last edited by snaps on Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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