Hurray! Fr Sean says I am poor!

txirimiri · **Posted:** Wed May 02, 2012 9:52 am

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre ... ing45.html

The new Minimum Income calculator, developed by MABs and the Vincentian Partnership estimates that a one-parent household where the parent is working full-time with two children aged two and 10, in an urban house with a mortgage of €1,400 per month needs an annual income of €63,277,76 per year.

Well, that is pretty much my income and my two children are within that agegroup ballpark. But my mortgage is 1900 a month, so that's an extra 500 a month after tax I need and we are a two parent family and my husband is tiresomely insistent on being fed and clothed, so throw in another 500 a month after tax for him.

So either I need 1000 more in welfare support a month or 2000 more added on to my pre-tax middling civil servant salary if I am to have a minimally dignified life

Cough up, Pinsters!

quozl · **Joined:** Nov 13, 2008 **Posts:** 322

Surely it's cheaper to be a 2 parent family where 1 is working rather than a 1 parent family, where 1 is working.

I know that I cost less to feed and clothe than our child-minding costs...

Larry · **Joined:** Jun 28, 2008 **Posts:** 4435

Quote:

An unemployed person, living in a rural area, in private rented accommodation with a rent of €400 per month and rent supplement of €80 per week, is said to not have a sufficient essential income and to need an additional €164.57 per week.

My good God almighty. So, after rent has been paid for by the State, welfare is about HALF of what it needs to be.

We are so, so, so, so, so fucked. So fucked.

txirimiri · **Posted:** Wed May 02, 2012 10:12 am

O dear. I had hesitated in posting the link as I was worried that it might be the final straw that led Larry to a nervous breakdown/heart failure due to rapidly raised blood pressure. Sorry Larry :nin

4naught · **Joined:** Dec 8, 2011 **Posts:** 36

txirimiri wrote:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0501/breaking45.html

The new Minimum Income calculator, developed by MABs and the Vincentian Partnership estimates that a one-parent household where the parent is working full-time with two children aged two and 10, in an urban house with a mortgage of €1,400 per month needs an annual income of €63,277,76 per year.

Well, that is pretty much my income and my two children are within that agegroup ballpark. But my mortgage is 1900 a month, so that's an extra 500 a month after tax I need and we are a two parent family and my husband is tiresomely insistent on being fed and clothed, so throw in another 500 a month after tax for him.

So either I need 1000 more in welfare support a month or 2000 more added on to my pre-tax middling civil servant salary if I am to have a minimally dignified life

Cough up, Pinsters!

just send me your bank details and i'll, like, totally sort you out...

yoganmahew · **Posted:** Wed May 02, 2012 10:19 am

quozl wrote:

Surely it's cheaper to be a 2 parent family where 1 is working rather than a 1 parent family, where 1 is working.

I know that I cost less to feed and clothe than our child-minding costs...

That depends on whether both parents are working to get that after-tax salary...

In addition, tax is higher on a single earner family than it is on a dual earner one...

blackdog · **Joined:** Jun 9, 2008 **Posts:** 1485

yoganmahew wrote:

In addition, tax is higher on a single earner family than it is on a dual earner one...

yeah. wtf is that all about.

paracetomol · **Joined:** Feb 9, 2009 **Posts:** 294

Hilarious. Doesn't account for feckless breeders like me who have more than 2 kids, but it's good to know that even if I gave one of my kids away, I am in Angela's Ashes territory even though I work fulltime. I wonder would Father Sean give me a pig's head for the Christmas dinner this year, god bless him.

Blackdog….Tax individualisation. Thanks McCreevy for that boot to the working poor.

buddygunz · **Joined:** May 26, 2008 **Posts:** 1437

They have no category for two childless people living together.

yoganmahew · **Posted:** Wed May 02, 2012 10:38 am

The method of calculation of the figures is rather bizarre. The income amount figure is a gross one, i.e. before tax. The tax calculations, though, seem rather low.

In particular, the calculation of benefits is grossly simplified such that everyone gets at least a GP visit medical card. Now I don't know about anyone else, but with a mortgage of 1500 a month, one parent working (of two), and a gross income of 65k (the minimum decent amount), I think it unlikely that a GP visit card would be provided.

ex-Patrick · **Posted:** Wed May 02, 2012 10:39 am

Quote:

The calculations have been arrived at following focus groups with the public on what they believe is a minimum standard below which no household should have to fall.

I think that this approach would be laudable in a country that's awash with spare money, but that's simply not the situation.
Focus groups with the public on minimum standards will yield generous results as people imagine the worst for themselves and inflate how much they'd need. Moreover their perspective is informed by a decade of hyper-consumption.

Magpie · **Posted:** Wed May 02, 2012 10:42 am

Larry wrote:

Quote:

An unemployed person, living in a rural area, in private rented accommodation with a rent of €400 per month and rent supplement of €80 per week, is said to not have a sufficient essential income and to need an additional €164.57 per week.

My good God almighty. So, after rent has been paid for by the State, welfare is about HALF of what it needs to be.

We are so, so, so, so, so fucked. So fucked.

€63k is a good whack of money for anybody in any EU country to be on. But if you live in Ireland, have 2 kinds and a mortgage of €1400 you are poor - unbelievable!!!!

What ever happened to that graph that charted our demise based on the number of times 'we are fucked' was uttered on here. Larry may have just sent it into orbit.

mocame · **Joined:** Jul 27, 2011 **Posts:** 416

I think the Irish Times is misrepresenting Fr Sean's calculator. I inserted my details, claiming two working parents and two kids (the calculator doesn't allow for more - maybe no one has told Fr S about Humanae Vitae), claimed to have mortgage costs of €2,500 per month and it calculated that I need a minimum income of €61,035.00. Mind you it also told me I would be entitled to a full medical card on that income which is news to me.

Try it yourselves on the following link:
http://dev.basecreative.ie/vpsj/

mocame · **Joined:** Jul 27, 2011 **Posts:** 416

have just tried it again claiming to me a parent of a two and four year old, rather than two four year old (I am indeed the parent of twins!) and now it claims that I need a minimum income €72,345.00! The difference seems to be due to an assumption of much higher childcare costs for a two year old. Not a fair assumption in my experience and the childcare costs assumed in this model are way below the norm at least in Dublin.

nige · **Joined:** Feb 23, 2011 **Posts:** 92

they've misspelt "stationery" in the expenditure section, but otherwise it doesn't seem too far off for my family. It says we need gross income of €63k after paying a mortgage of €1,000 a month and childcare of €200 a week (I'd to manually adjust the childcare figure).

The figure of €146 a week to feed two adults and two children seems generous enough. They must know that my four year old has a penchant for smoked salmon.

Hurray! Fr Sean says I am poor!

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