The length of the treaty is only a fraction of it. I could tell you county by county what the different attitudes to Lisbon were, the bajillion different arguments on each side. But thats not really the issue. in the end, what difference will it make?

Whatever way I vote, there's only one result that will be accepted. And either way, there is now such an enormous gap between the people of Europe and the politicians of Europe, that the foundations, never mind these fiscal compact frills are in question.

Based on past experience, I think the answer is simple. Ireland will vote "Yes", eventually, however many attempts it takes. The only question is whether it needs a record three ballots.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... 00629.html
pretty funny

The thing I find most interesting about the O Cuiv saga is just how personally the insiders in the mainstream media have taken to his opposition. His character has being destroyed in many of the newspapers, and in particular the opinion pieces that I have listened to on RTÉ radio. The fact that he has gotten back into line suggests that the insiders gave him an ultimatum - stand against us, and will will ruin you.

In my opinion, the establishment insiders that run this country are scared to death that the Fiscal Compact won't pass.

Its quite clear that a NO vote will introduce more austerity. I.e. a very severe and immediate dose of austerity.

There seem to be 2 groups in the NO camp:

Group 1. Those who believe that the above is good - as it will lead to a faster recovery later on - E.g the Iceland model

Group 2. Those in complete denial (SF etc.) who claim that is will lead to less immediate austerity and less long term austerity.

Having watched Michael Portillos BBC2 program last night on the travails of Greece I can categorically say that immediate severe austerity is not the way to go - its not until you see people interviewed that you realise the consequences of it.

The challenge for those in group 1 is to explain why we would be Iceland and not Greece if we vote NO.

Say yes to the Fiscal Treaty. It is very important to say yes. To strengthen Europe and become more united in all things monetary and political. Saw Michael Portillos programme on BBC and we the Irish people don't know what austerity actually is. We must leave the parish pump isolationist mentality. Our thinking needs to get off the island. We must help the Germans and Angela Merkel for their leadership role in phasing out Nuclear power and moving into alternatives such as photovoltaic, green, solar and wind. We must become leaders of Europe. We must be the greatest small country with intelligent well educated workers. We will be the only English speaking nation in the European Union with the Euro Currency. We must moove faster than England and take advantage of Maura Geoghin Quinn with her budget for Science of 430 Billions, just say 5% of her budget. Lets take some decepline and unite Europe to become the greatest nation on earth. Let us the Irish be the first country to say yes and give the lead to the other countries. We must thank the Eu for the Bailout of our stupid banks and for the CAP. Let the Irish be the Leaders of the yes movement into the Fiscal Compact unity.

Until I see true leadership by example from our government ministers, TDs, top civil servants and the like, then I will be voting No. The salaries, expenses and benefits that are being drawn by these people are obscene considering the financial situation in this country. Personally I think many will see voting No as a way to try to derail the gravy train.

This really is a very foolish attitude - if the politicians and such others are as you describe - and I am not denying it - then almost by definition they will act to protect themselves at everyone else's expense if austerity really bites.

The phrase "cut off your nose to spite your face" comes to mind.

I've done that last thing to myself a few times. It generally doesn't work in this country.

But I feel the better for it. For standing up for my beliefs in order to achieve what I believe is right.

There is a game here.

I'm voting no. I don't like their games. I want some consequences.

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