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 Post subject: Re: why isn't electricity cheaper
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:17 pm 
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Road traffic volumes, - The CSO. Lots of good data.
http://cso.ie/en/releasesandpublication ... icvolumes/

Mileage by fuel type, and trip purpose, UK stats, also interesting.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... -occupancy


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 Post subject: Re: why isn't electricity cheaper
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:26 pm 
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yoganmahew wrote:
Does anyone have any figures for miles powered by petrol/diesel so we can talk about the daily (peak) requirement and how that might be spread?

Start here. Their links to SEAI are broken but you can download the 2017 SEAI Energy in Ireland report from the link on this page. You can see transport sector energy use in tonne of oil equivalent (toe). They give conversions to Joules. Transport is more than cars of course. You can get number of cars and car average mileage. If you get numbers for average EV miles per kW and allow for transmission and charging losses you should be able to convert to electricity demand. SEAI also gives numbers separately for road freight activity. Happy crunching.

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 Post subject: Re: why isn't electricity cheaper
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:10 pm 
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temene wrote:
Someone asked earlier. We found out today that
You won't be able to buy a petrol or diesel car in Ireland after 2030


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/tra ... -1.3415933

Quote:
Toyota to end production of diesel cars this year
Brand to become first mainstream firm to drop diesel from passenger car fleet in EU

Toyota is to end production of diesel versions of its passenger cars sold this year. In one of the most significant moves since the diesel emissions scandal broke in September 2015, the Japanese brand says it is abandoning diesel sales in Europe from the end of this year to focus its attention on petrol-electric hybrid versions.


VW's Golf GTE (plug in hybrid) getting decent reviews
I think mist Irish people would be more comfortable with this before an all-electric; especially in familiar shape of a Golf. How ironic that VW's diesels have done so much for it


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 Post subject: Re: why isn't electricity cheaper
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:50 pm 
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slasher wrote:
temene wrote:
Someone asked earlier. We found out today that
You won't be able to buy a petrol or diesel car in Ireland after 2030


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/tra ... -1.3415933

Quote:
Toyota to end production of diesel cars this year
Brand to become first mainstream firm to drop diesel from passenger car fleet in EU

Toyota is to end production of diesel versions of its passenger cars sold this year. In one of the most significant moves since the diesel emissions scandal broke in September 2015, the Japanese brand says it is abandoning diesel sales in Europe from the end of this year to focus its attention on petrol-electric hybrid versions.


VW's Golf GTE (plug in hybrid) getting decent reviews
I think mist Irish people would be more comfortable with this before an all-electric; especially in familiar shape of a Golf. How ironic that VW's diesels have done so much for it


The speed with which manufacturers are dropping diesels makes me think that:
(a) It is impossible to build a diesel that can meet the emission standards that are needed to ensure public health (particularly in an urban environment) without cheating
(b) Everybody was cheating and is hoping that nobody will bother looking at their previous history since they've stopped making them.

I suspect they may be right on (b) but in this country we have a particularly nasty legacy of private and public vehicles with very large diesel engines that will continue to pollute our lungs for many years to come. Hopefully the EU will come to our rescue and ban the damn things, equally hopefully our politicians will not spend any taxpayers money on funding the move away from diesel.


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 Post subject: Re: why isn't electricity cheaper
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:40 pm 
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I'm not one given to naive optimism, but I've said before I expect that nuclear fusion will be developed sooner rather than later. There are half a dozen commercially funded efforts, not to mention public research projects and, contrary to popular belief, they are actually making progress. The latest announcement is one worth keeping an eye on. MIT's compact tokamak research made considerable strides before it was defunded in 2016. Now, in conjunction with an MIT spin-off company and $50m of investment from Italy's ENI (yes, the oil company) they have launched their SPARC program to create a new type of high-temperature superconducting magnet within three years.

Success would mean small-scale (about one sixtieth the physical size of ITER) reactors in the 100-200 MW range, suitable for municipal applications. If the magnets work, they say its about seven years (from now) to a working 100 MW prototype reactor and twice that to commercialisation. One of the interesting things about this project is its lack of novelty -- it is the same tokamak design that scientists think is the most likely route to commercial fusion, just with a smaller radius of curvature due to the stronger magnets, and a consequent ten-fold increase in power density. First wall and energy extraction issues are no different to those already in the pipeline for ITER. MIT article here.

This guy is leading the new spin-off company, though the vid is from early 2016 before MIT's previous effort ended:



I should mention that Tokamak Energy in the UK has a similar program for compact tokamak fusion using HTS magnets, and have obtained a number of patents. Their timeline is similar if not even more aggressive. They also grew out of a publicly funded research environment, at JET. As of now, they are not as well funded as the MIT spin-off.

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 Post subject: Re: why isn't electricity cheaper
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:09 pm 
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Has anyone does the maths on using PV with an Air to Water heat pump (with accumulator)? Seems possibly a more reliable (no water pipes) alternative to Solar Tubes for DHW (hot water + possible UFH). My brother is building and the roof direction isn't optimal for sun so he's thinking of putting the PV on a garden shed etc. In the depths of winter you can rely on the grid for effecient DHW.


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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:05 am 
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Saudis are planning a solar plant on a truly unprecedented scale ... more than a hundred times bigger than the worlds's current largest.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/20 ... ar-future/

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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:49 pm 
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ps200306 wrote:
Saudis are planning a solar plant on a truly unprecedented scale ... more than a hundred times bigger than the worlds's current largest.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/20 ... ar-future/


Which I guess we've all contributed to financially right?

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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:08 pm 
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ps200306 wrote:
Saudis are planning a solar plant on a truly unprecedented scale ... more than a hundred times bigger than the worlds's current largest.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/20 ... ar-future/

I suppose they've realised that it makes more sense to power air conditioning from solar than to burn up loads of oil that they could otherwise sell.

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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 11:27 am 
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ElectricIreland break down your residential bill
29% Cost of raw material (gas, oil, ..)
28% Transmission
10% Generation
14% EI supplier costs
12% Vat
7% PSO tax


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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:46 am 
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Eirgrid begins Ireland-France interconnector surveys

https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2018/05 ... connector/

Quote:
A final decision on construction of the Celtic Interconnector will not be made until 2021.


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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:47 am 
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https://www.ft.com/content/fa755eec-67e ... cfcfb08c11

World’s first liquid air energy storage plant opens near Manchester
Pilsworth unit suits age of renewable energy by acting as giant rechargeable battery
Quote:
The UK is pioneering a new way to store power with the world’s first grid-scale liquid air energy storage plant.

The Pilsworth liquid air energy storage (LAES) plant, which is owned by Highview Power, opens on Tuesday in Bury and will act as a giant rechargeable battery, soaking up excess energy and releasing it when needed.

This is particularly useful with the rapid growth in renewable energy, which accounted for 29 per cent of all electricity generated in the UK in 2017. It generates excess power when the sun is shining and the wind is blowing but is not reliable at times of peak demand.

Coal-fired power stations that typically handled peak electricity demand are being shut down and National Grid, which owns and operates the electricity transmission network, pays small gas and diesel generators to bridge the gap.

LAES is another, non-polluting option, according to Gareth Brett, chief executive of Highview Power, which developed the technology. “LAES is arguably the only viable, long-duration, locatable energy storage technology available,” he said.

He added that the system, which was developed in conjunction with Birmingham university, has 33 patents and is cheaper than batteries at large scale. It is also more durable: plants last for up to 40 years and can be installed anywhere.

LAES works by cooling air to -196°C, transforming it into a liquid that is stored at low pressure in insulated tanks. When power is needed the liquid air is pumped to high pressure and heated. The result is a high-pressure gas that is used to power a turbine and create electricity.

The Pilsworth plant has a capacity of five megawatts and can store 15 megawatt hours (MWh) of electricity — enough to power about 5,000 average-sized homes for around three hours. A commercial-scale plant would have a capacity of 50mw.


http://www.eu.mhps.com/en/liquid-air-en ... orage.html

about 70% efficiency


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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:05 pm 
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That's quite good, pumped water storage for example has an efficiency of between 70 to 80% but the main thing is it can store a significant amount of energy and can be located almost anywhere.

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Ronald Coase, Nobel Economic Sciences, said in 1991 “If we torture the data long enough, it will confess.”
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild
"To be precise, my mistake. Humans are underrated": Elon Musk


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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:33 pm 
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Will be awesome if it actually achieves 70%. Their first prototype was 15%. The efficiency depends on the cycle rate because you buffer some of the heat exchange between cooling and reheating in a reservoir. Also requires a source of otherwise waste heat at over 100 degrees, so probably not true that it can easily be deployed anywhere. But still sounds promising.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryogenic_energy_storage

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 Post subject: Re: Why isn't electricity cheaper?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:31 am 
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Yeah, 70% doesn't sound great but when electricity is almost free at night it's acceptable. Anyone have the chart of prices per hour. I thought Chicken P posted something ages ago


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