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 Post subject: Re: Wood pellet boiler stoves/ranges
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:15 pm 
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york wrote:
Is this the boiler you mean? https://www.klover.it/en/prodotti/kitchen/pellet/smart120inox

I'd a 23KW gas boiler in my last (old / poorly insulated / 900 sq ft house). When it got cold out, the heating struggled to keep the place warm on full blast. I'm wondering whether 17.5 KW is a bit undersized if it's a similar house and "not small"

Perhaps you're sizing it in relation to insulation you intend to get. I've 25kW in my current, well insulated house but that's needed for the direct hot water primarily, I could do with less for the central heating - I'd just have to leave it on longer and live a longer get-the-house-warm-from-a-standing-start time.


Yes, that's the boiler/cooker we're considering. We understand that it is 23KW, but gather that the heating to the room is 2-5KW, depending on whether lids (another 900+ euro) are purchased and closed.

The larger point that you make, that we need to be more clear about the likely needs after the insulation works are completed, is compelling. We began by thinking we'd replace an oil boiler with natural gas, and supplement this with a wet-stove in the kitchen, quite certain that this would be more than enough and give us a secondary benefit of enjoying a view of a (controlled) flame in the kitchen. However, then the notion of natural gas piped to the boiler and new cooker seemed flawed, due to the expected periodic replacement expenses indicated. The heating engineer mentioned pellet stoves, and on investigating them further we saw that the boiler/cooker possibility is available, and this (which includes a view of the flame) is attractive. It's possible that it's wishful thinking to imagine that this one boiler could be sufficient. The acceleration that you emphasize, from cold to comfortable, that the Klover 120 makes possible isn't a figure that we've learned yet. Available reviews seem to be largely positive and based in Wales, though we understand that at least one was installed in the midlands during 2017. In any case, we have to sharpen some pencils and round up more envelopes....

york wrote:
You're not going to have enough in 17.5KW to run any sized home on a water-on-demand basis (think: those piddly electric showers run 9KW or so). So, since you're going to be going with a hot water storage tank, you don't need a water softener to protect the boiler. As I say, it'll be a sealed system. You can fill/top it up with Pellegrino if you want.

I might appear overly questioning of the wood pellet idea. Far from it, since I've no idea about the cost savings. The point is to point out some of the factors needing considering, as they occur to me.


You've offered many many angles for us to consider. Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Wood pellet boiler stoves/ranges
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:25 pm 
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Coles2 wrote:
croquette wrote:
Coles2 wrote:
I've yet to come across a person who was happy with their pellet burner after a couple of years of using and maintaining it.

Thank you for this information. Are you able to indicate the issues that undermined happiness in those cases?
One issue was with the boilers being mis-sold to elderly people who then found the chore of carting and loading pellets to be impractical as they got older.

Another issue with large pellet stores was trying to keep the humidity level low after delivery. If the humidity level increases the efficiency goes way down.

Mechanical problems are usually related to the auger that feeds the pellets to fire. One problem I've come across was with the auger becoming clogged and rubbing against the housing which for some dumb reason was also the wall of the boiler. Before the problem was noticed I had worn through the boiler wall and created a very difficult welding problem to fix the leak. The company who made the boiler weren't interested in fixing it.

I really like the idea of pellet boilers and stoves, but they are a heavy investment. A lot of the mechanical issues have probably been resolved with the newer models.


Thank you for expanding with those details. In our case, the pellet storage problem seems tractable. It seems that Italy is a pioneer in wood pellet heating, and, so far, we've not located much negative about the boiler/cooker that we're contemplating. The ambient noise is an issue that concerns us, as is the lack of evidence that a manual over-ride is available in case of electrical power failure. We're relying on reviews from past users, at the moment. Anyway, thank you for pointing out additional issues to be minded.


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 Post subject: Re: Wood pellet boiler stoves/ranges
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:33 pm 
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Salamander wrote:
I don't like the look of them either. The appeal of a stove is it's attractive appearance. Stay traditional.


Thank you for your opinion on that. In evaluating whether anything we do is damaging to the place, we consider what a follow-on owner might think, and the opinion you express is an indicator of what that thought might be. The boiler/cooker is somewhat more attractive than the boiler/stove, and we can imagine a follow-on owner agreeing, and appreciating the aesthetics of the water vapour exhaust and wood ash for the garden.


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 Post subject: Re: Wood pellet boiler stoves/ranges
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:39 pm 
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werpen wrote:
It quote a lot of money
Id tabulate the fixed and running costs of the 3 main options to see in the cold light of day what the costs are.
I would have been against oil as an option but the more recent boilers are reasonably efficient
We have oil plus a small stove for the sitting room

Id do the insulation first as you dont want to over size your boiler stove etc


Thank you for your response -- it appears to be in the same spirit as York's. Yes, we have more homework to do!


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 Post subject: Re: Wood pellet boiler stoves/ranges
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:27 pm 
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ttp://www.thejournal.ie/fossil-fuel-div ... 1-Jul2018/

Quote:
Ireland to be the world’s first country to divest public money from fossil fuels

The passing of the Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill means the government will have to drop its coal, oil and gas investments.


Wondering now if the case is stronger for pellet stoves?


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 Post subject: Re: Wood pellet boiler stoves/ranges
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:48 pm 
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Joined: Oct 20, 2012
Posts: 1916
croquette wrote:
ttp://www.thejournal.ie/fossil-fuel-divestment-bill-4124211-Jul2018/

Quote:
Ireland to be the world’s first country to divest public money from fossil fuels

The passing of the Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill means the government will have to drop its coal, oil and gas investments.


Wondering now if the case is stronger for pellet stoves?


Why would it make any difference

Also will we also be selling off or closing Bord na Móna and stopping burning turf to generate electricity

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 Post subject: Re: Wood pellet boiler stoves/ranges
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:31 pm 
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Location: Cork and Kerry
Just a few words from a householder who heats (i.e. heat for central heating and heat for domestic hot water in the winter) by wood fuel.

I generally burn logs and branches.
There is access locally to large amounts of timber and the best period to harvest is spring into summer. Cost is generally down to personal time; fueling, oiling & sharpening of chainsaw and haulage.
Due to the nominally free fuel the cost is less than pellets, for me in this location at least.

A few negatives;
A wood log stove is generally not automatic. But I do clean and kindle/reload/refuel it in the morning generally in the winter so that on return home in the evening it is ready to go and it warms up very fast indeed.
If memory serves me correct it is rated at approximately 20kW. 5kW to room and 15kW to water.
There is a large storage tank that holds the hot water produced which is used for regular needs (showers, sinks etc.)

A wood log stove requires labour:
Must generally be emptied of ashes every day or every other day depending on the amount of ash and duration of burning etc.
Must be refuelled by gathering and preparing kindling (paper/cardboard mixed with light twigs/branches/slips of wood etc.)
and by hauling logs to keep it fueled.
One large basket of fuel is generally more than sufficient but more may be required if at home during weekends.

Pellets do have benefits but also cost more.

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 Post subject: Re: Wood pellet boiler stoves/ranges
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:31 pm 
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Joined: Jan 31, 2007
Posts: 333
Location: Middle Earth
wii4miinow wrote:
Just a few words from a householder who heats (i.e. heat for central heating and heat for domestic hot water in the winter) by wood fuel.

I generally burn logs and branches.
There is access locally to large amounts of timber and the best period to harvest is spring into summer. Cost is generally down to personal time; fueling, oiling & sharpening of chainsaw and haulage.
Due to the nominally free fuel the cost is less than pellets, for me in this location at least.

A few negatives;
A wood log stove is generally not automatic. But I do clean and kindle/reload/refuel it in the morning generally in the winter so that on return home in the evening it is ready to go and it warms up very fast indeed.
If memory serves me correct it is rated at approximately 20kW. 5kW to room and 15kW to water.
There is a large storage tank that holds the hot water produced which is used for regular needs (showers, sinks etc.)

A wood log stove requires labour:
Must generally be emptied of ashes every day or every other day depending on the amount of ash and duration of burning etc.
Must be refuelled by gathering and preparing kindling (paper/cardboard mixed with light twigs/branches/slips of wood etc.)
and by hauling logs to keep it fueled.
One large basket of fuel is generally more than sufficient but more may be required if at home during weekends.

Pellets do have benefits but also cost more.


I'm in much the same situation, but buy blocks in bulk on donedeal. I heat a 3 bed semi early 60's build, D2 BER, 125m2 for about €1100 a year. The moisture content is key and getting to know a couple of sellers on donedeal that actually season the wood for > 12 months is neccessary, plus I buy in the spring so it's got 2 summers drying. I do mix in a bit of coal for the really cold days too.


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