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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:20 am 
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yoganmahew wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45516678
Quote:
Brexit: Carney warns no-deal could see house prices plunge

The cabinet meeting was part of a series no-deal planning sessions designed to discuss the "unlikely" scenario that the UK leaves the EU without an agreement in place. After each meeting, planning papers are published on various subjects.

On Thursday, the papers disclosed that UK car drivers may have to get an international driving permit if they want to drive in some European countries after a no-deal Brexit.

The government said that after March 2019 "your driving licence may no longer be valid by itself" in the EU, in its latest no-deal planning papers.

The papers also warned that Britons travelling to the EU may need to make sure their passports have six months left to run.

And, in an interview with BBC Political Editor Laura Kuenssberg, Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab said the government was trying to give the "reassurance that consumers need" on the issue of mobile phone roaming charges but admitted that European operators could pass on charges.
>>>



Well if lower house prices and rents are an automatic outcome of leaving the EU then maybe the Irexit crowd might prove more popular than first expected.

Plus I can't see why a British driving license wouldn't be recognized in continental Europe. My understanding is that Americans and Australians can rent cars and drive wherever they want. I don't see why Brits would be treated differently other than as a result of a 'punishment' arrangementl.....but that's not really the same thing.

The passports having 6 months left to run thing is a basic principle that operates everywhere on earth where visas are required...although often it will be waived depending on possession of return tickets and an undertaking to renew. I still don't buy the notion that Brits will need a visa to travel to most of Europe. They don't need visas (or else get visas on arrival) to travel to many non European countries. Given that they are one of the largest tourist groupings, (outside of a politically motivated 'punishment' scenario) it's highly unlikely that Spain or Portugal or anywhere else would do anything other than make it as easy as possible for them to travel there.

Increases in roaming charges may be more of a possibility but again given the numbers traveling id again be surprised if they weren't facilitated as a simple function of competition between providers

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:39 am 
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the international drivers licence thing depends on the Country you're in. Rental companies want to rent cars so unless it's the law to ask for it they're not going to. Cops are a different story. If the law is to have an international and you get the wrong cop then it could be trouble. It won't matter in Ireland as we'll look the other way so that the PSNI will do the same.
Will a traffic cop in Germany be so understanding?

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:12 am 
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Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
Plus I can't see why a British driving license wouldn't be recognized in continental Europe. My understanding is that Americans and Australians can rent cars and drive wherever they want. I don't see why Brits would be treated differently other than as a result of a 'punishment' arrangementl.....but that's not really the same thing.



Well if the Americans and Australians withdrew from the international agreements upon which this mutual recognition of licenses was based, the mutual recognition would cease.

Should mutual recognition cease, American license holders would be, in effect, unlicensed when driving in the EU.

This, in addition to being a breach of the law, would invalidate car rental companies' insurance policies.

This is not at all complicated.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:16 am 
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catbear wrote:
The Naked Chef wrote:
catbear wrote:
Epicurus wrote:

That's not to say there aren't places in England that are tinder boxes. But these could rear up any time. Like London in 2011 or Paris in 2005.

There's a good portion of north England towns and cities that are volatile. When moving over I had no conception of the scale of the poverty in large swaths. It's ripe ground for discontent.


Plus 1 to the above. I spend a lot of time in NE and NW England for work. I visit labour intensive manufacturing sites in the food sector. The labour force is almost 80% non national in most cases while the surrounding neighbourhoods have unemployment in the order of 15/20%. It's a car crash of epic proportions coming to an island near you.

I'm glad I'm not the only one on here sees it. All last year after the Manchester Arena bombing there were mosques getting firebombed every week. You'd see it mentioned in the local media but it rarely made the national media unless someone got hurt.

What really strikes me about living here and the media is that you'd have little idea of what the actual public is thinking. The national media is a left/right punch and judy circus while on the streets there's a whole different contest going on, and it isn't nice. The homelessness problem here is on a whole different level to what's happening in Ireland and it's getting worse.

I moved over after the vote for a prearranged career move for my partner, which has paid off, and what really struck me is how in some areas that voted Leave I could well see how they felt things couldn't get worse.


Don't know that much about life in the UK and am really only interested in Brexit from the perspective of what it means for Ireland..... however someone shared this on Facebook and it immediately reminded me of some of the posts on this thread ....


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:19 am 
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Evil_g wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
Plus I can't see why a British driving license wouldn't be recognized in continental Europe. My understanding is that Americans and Australians can rent cars and drive wherever they want. I don't see why Brits would be treated differently other than as a result of a 'punishment' arrangementl.....but that's not really the same thing.



Well if the Americans and Australians withdrew from the international agreements upon which this mutual recognition of licenses was based, the mutual recognition would cease.

Should mutual recognition cease, American license holders would be, in effect, unlicensed when driving in the EU.

This, in addition to being a breach of the law, would invalidate car rental companies' insurance policies.

This is not at all complicated.


Do you really believe that people holding British driving licenses will be excluded from driving in France and Spain ?

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:26 am 
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Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
Evil_g wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
Plus I can't see why a British driving license wouldn't be recognized in continental Europe. My understanding is that Americans and Australians can rent cars and drive wherever they want. I don't see why Brits would be treated differently other than as a result of a 'punishment' arrangementl.....but that's not really the same thing.



Well if the Americans and Australians withdrew from the international agreements upon which this mutual recognition of licenses was based, the mutual recognition would cease.

Should mutual recognition cease, American license holders would be, in effect, unlicensed when driving in the EU.

This, in addition to being a breach of the law, would invalidate car rental companies' insurance policies.

This is not at all complicated.


Do you really believe that people holding British driving licenses will be excluded from driving in France and Spain ?


In the absense of a withdrawal agreement, including a transitionary period during which the UK will continue to have most of the rights and obligations of membership, on the 29th of March next year the Treaties upon which all European Law is built will cease to apply to the UK.

This is an immutable fact. That is what triggering article 50 set in train.

So in the absence of a withdrawal agreement, absolutely, Spain and France, (and Ireland) must cease to recognise UK drivers licenses until new agreements are entered into. And that's not even the tip of the iceberg.

That's how the law works.


Last edited by Evil_g on Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:31 am 
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Evil_g wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
Evil_g wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
Plus I can't see why a British driving license wouldn't be recognized in continental Europe. My understanding is that Americans and Australians can rent cars and drive wherever they want. I don't see why Brits would be treated differently other than as a result of a 'punishment' arrangementl.....but that's not really the same thing.



Well if the Americans and Australians withdrew from the international agreements upon which this mutual recognition of licenses was based, the mutual recognition would cease.

Should mutual recognition cease, American license holders would be, in effect, unlicensed when driving in the EU.

This, in addition to being a breach of the law, would invalidate car rental companies' insurance policies.

This is not at all complicated.


Do you really believe that people holding British driving licenses will be excluded from driving in France and Spain ?


In the absense of a withdrawal agreement, including a transitionary period during which the UK will continue to have most of the rights and obligations of membership, on the 29th of March next year the Treaties upon which all European Law is built will cease to apply to the UK.

This is an immutable fact. That is what triggering article 50 set in train.

So in the absence of a withdrawal agreement, absolutely Spain and France, (and Ireland) must cease to recognise UK drivers licenses until new agreements are entered into. And that's not even the tip of the iceberg.

That's how the law works.


I'm not sure how we could organise it but I'd be willing to wager €500 that, post Brexit, persons holding British driving licenses will be permitted to drive in Spain.

In the case of Ireland Id up it to €1000.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:34 am 
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Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
Do you really believe that people holding British driving licenses will be excluded from driving in France and Spain ?



Yes, because they are not insured. They are not insured because they do not have a license; they don't have a license because the international treaties that the license was based on has been rescinded.

Have you ever tried to claim insurance? Every comma, dot or smudge or crease in a contract is used as an excuse as to why not to pay out claims. Do you really think that insurance companies are going to pay out large amounts of money when they don't have to?


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:37 am 
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Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:

I'm not sure how we could organise it but I'd be willing to wager €500 that, post Brexit, persons holding British driving licenses will be permitted to drive in Spain.

In the case of Ireland Id up it to €1000.


"Post Brexit". And Brexit means?

The papers released yesterday, the BBC article that raised this point, and I, are specifically refering to a "No-deal" situation come the 29th of March next year.

You're talking about some unspecified set of circumstances at some unspecified point in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:40 am 
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The Curious One wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
Do you really believe that people holding British driving licenses will be excluded from driving in France and Spain ?



Yes, because they are not insured. They are not insured because they do not have a license; they don't have a license because the international treaties that the license was based on has been rescinded.

Have you ever tried to claim insurance? Every comma, dot or smudge or crease in a contract is used as an excuse as to why not to pay out claims. Do you really think that insurance companies are going to pay out large amounts of money when they don't have to?


I know of instance where an Irish insurance company refused to insure EU driver with a full license form their respective EU country, this was for the purposes of driving an Irish reg car, basically only option was for the driver to convert their license to Full Irish if they want to drive but were not willing to do that and it caused real world problems for all involved.

I guess then rental cars and their random drivers have a magical component that I am unaware that makes all that work beautifully, anywhere in the world.

So much for the benefits of being in the EU. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:42 am 
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I think I'm starting to get Y2K flashbacks....

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:43 am 
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Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
I think I'm starting to get Y2K flashbacks....


Good call! I think they're learning from Trump. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:46 am 
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Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
I think I'm starting to get Y2K flashbacks....


If you can't understand it, it must be lies right?


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:50 am 
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Open Window wrote:

I guess then rental cars and their random drivers have a magical component that I am unaware that makes all that work beautifully, anywhere in the world.



Insurance policies taken out, and premiums paid, by car rental companies are very different to those taken out by private drivers.

The world is a complicated place.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:52 am 
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Evil_g wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:

I'm not sure how we could organise it but I'd be willing to wager €500 that, post Brexit, persons holding British driving licenses will be permitted to drive in Spain.

In the case of Ireland Id up it to €1000.


"Post Brexit". And Brexit means?

The papers released yesterday, the BBC article that raised this point, and I, are specifically refering to a "No-deal" situation come the 29th of March next year.

You're talking about some unspecified set of circumstances at some unspecified point in the future.


So you're referring to a potential 'window' period of unspecified length (24 hours? 72 hours?) during which there may be some teething problems in terms of bureaucratic oversight? And after which business as usual, would be resumed?

Hardly seems like a domesday scenario.

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