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 Post subject: Re: Strike Season
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:37 pm 
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Property Magnate

Joined: Oct 2, 2008
Posts: 573
HiFi wrote:
blanchguy wrote:
Open Window wrote:

Holidays - That's why, but will it ever be said publicly? :nin


I don't know how much holidays nurses get, but the average public servant with flexitime has over 40 days a year, and has much more flexibility than a teacher as to when they are taken. So they aren't that much worse off than teachers.


This is true...

As a recently returned Civil Servant I've noticed leave has increased by at least two days for many grades since my last time there over twenty years ago.

I've 26 days annual leave with the opportunity to work up 1.5 additional days over each four-week period.

That's 13 X 1.5 = 19.5 plus 26 = 45.5 days off! (Oh and I'll get an extra day annual leave next year due to service.)

Increments are an incredible increase - very noticeable in the pay packet. Some are as wide as €1,500.00 - with the additional pay agreements (1.75% due in September) on top of that.

Why did I ever leave in the first place?

Maybe I'm a bit thick this morning, had a late night, but I don't get the logic of the bit in bold. As I see it you have 26 days 'off' and 19.5 days when you are not in work because you already worked those hours. I cannot see how that makes 45.5 days 'off'. Unless I'm not reading it correctly.


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Season
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:43 pm 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Jan 30, 2009
Posts: 2161
i don't believe it! wrote:
HiFi wrote:
blanchguy wrote:
Open Window wrote:

Holidays - That's why, but will it ever be said publicly? :nin


I don't know how much holidays nurses get, but the average public servant with flexitime has over 40 days a year, and has much more flexibility than a teacher as to when they are taken. So they aren't that much worse off than teachers.


This is true...

As a recently returned Civil Servant I've noticed leave has increased by at least two days for many grades since my last time there over twenty years ago.

I've 26 days annual leave with the opportunity to work up 1.5 additional days over each four-week period.

That's 13 X 1.5 = 19.5 plus 26 = 45.5 days off! (Oh and I'll get an extra day annual leave next year due to service.)

Increments are an incredible increase - very noticeable in the pay packet. Some are as wide as €1,500.00 - with the additional pay agreements (1.75% due in September) on top of that.

Why did I ever leave in the first place?

Maybe I'm a bit thick this morning, had a late night, but I don't get the logic of the bit in bold. As I see it you have 26 days 'off' and 19.5 days when you are not in work because you already worked those hours. I cannot see how that makes 45.5 days 'off'. Unless I'm not reading it correctly.


Work an extra 12 hours per month for a extra 1.5days off? :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Season
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:46 pm 
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Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Nov 4, 2011
Posts: 6078
Location: SthDub
i don't believe it! wrote:
Maybe I'm a bit thick this morning, had a late night, but I don't get the logic of the bit in bold. As I see it you have 26 days 'off' and 19.5 days when you are not in work because you already worked those hours. I cannot see how that makes 45.5 days 'off'. Unless I'm not reading it correctly.

In my experience in the PS, the hours are built up through being present in work rather than having 'worked' them!
So they are in effect holidays.

HiFi- you left off the uncertified sick days, usually around 6 in most PS/CS organisations.
So that's 51.5 days off before you even start on the certified sick days and the Doc's sure aren't shy about writing a few of them a year for most people.


Last edited by FreeFallin on Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Strike Season
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:55 pm 
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Property Magnate

Joined: Oct 2, 2008
Posts: 573
FreeFallin wrote:
i don't believe it! wrote:
Maybe I'm a bit thick this morning, had a late night, but I don't get the logic of the bit in bold. As I see it you have 26 days 'off' and 19.5 days when you are not in work because you already worked those hours. I cannot see how that makes 45.5 days 'off'. Unless I'm not reading it correctly.

In my experience in the PS, the hours are built up through being rpesent in work rather than having 'worked' them!
So they are in effect holidays.

HiFi- you left off the uncertified sick days, usually around 6 in most PS/CS organisations.
So that's 51.5 days off before you even start on the certified sick days and the Doc's sure aren't shy about writing a few of them a year for most people.

I have to say this attitude really gets my goat. And I'm self-employed! There are as many diligent workers in the PS as there are in the private sector, and as many dossers too. Before I became self-employed I worked in the private sector and in my experience there was no shortage of lazy workers who took every opportunity to stay out 'sick'. As for working-up for days off, I did that quite often and it often suited my employer more than it suited me. Of course I have heard of PS workers abusing the system of working-up days, but I also witnessed Private Sector workers lying about the time spent at work in order to get time off. And I know for a fact that nurses often cannot leave work when scheduled because they are still required on the ward, in the theatre, wherever - should they not get that time back? I think the adversarial relationship between PS and Private Sector workers does no one any good and doesn't contribute to the smooth running of the country.


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Season
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:43 pm 
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Planning Tribunal Attendee

Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 1021
Quote:
“..either immediately or ultimately every dollar of government spending must be raised through a dollar of taxation. Once we look at the matter. In this way, the supposed miracles of government spending will appear in another light.”


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Season
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:51 pm 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 29, 2009
Posts: 1553
Location: South County Dublin
Since 2014 Public Service Uncertified Sick Days are limited to 7 days in a rolling 2-year period.


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Season
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:17 pm 
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Holiday Home Owner
User avatar

Joined: Feb 7, 2008
Posts: 330
i don't believe it! wrote:
FreeFallin wrote:
i don't believe it! wrote:
Maybe I'm a bit thick this morning, had a late night, but I don't get the logic of the bit in bold. As I see it you have 26 days 'off' and 19.5 days when you are not in work because you already worked those hours. I cannot see how that makes 45.5 days 'off'. Unless I'm not reading it correctly.

In my experience in the PS, the hours are built up through being rpesent in work rather than having 'worked' them!
So they are in effect holidays.

HiFi- you left off the uncertified sick days, usually around 6 in most PS/CS organisations.
So that's 51.5 days off before you even start on the certified sick days and the Doc's sure aren't shy about writing a few of them a year for most people.


I have to say this attitude really gets my goat. And I'm self-employed! There are as many diligent workers in the PS as there are in the private sector, and as many dossers too. Before I became self-employed I worked in the private sector and in my experience there was no shortage of lazy workers who took every opportunity to stay out 'sick'. As for working-up for days off, I did that quite often and it often suited my employer more than it suited me. Of course I have heard of PS workers abusing the system of working-up days, but I also witnessed Private Sector workers lying about the time spent at work in order to get time off. And I know for a fact that nurses often cannot leave work when scheduled because they are still required on the ward, in the theatre, wherever - should they not get that time back? I think the adversarial relationship between PS and Private Sector workers does no one any good and doesn't contribute to the smooth running of the country.


You've never worked in the public sector - but you know they work as hard as the private sector? What do you base that on? I can tell you for a fact, that when I worked in a large civil service office, when things got quiet we would have processed the day's post by noon, I asked could I still work up flexitime - of course. Now I'm not sure how that benefits the employer more than it benefited me. I'm pretty sure that nurses that stay late get overtime rather than TOIL.

I have to say that some sick leave is due to poor management - in a number of offices where I worked, supervisors liked to have the same amount of people in every day, despite the fact that our workload/targets were set weekly. So for instance, in an office with a predominately young workforce, we were told that only two people per section could have the Monday after Electric Picnic off. Some attendees made it to work XD, some didn't :sick:.

I did predict that someone would be along after morning break to debunk our tales. Unusually this time it's a self employed person, with no public sector experience.


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Season
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:27 pm 
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Property Magnate

Joined: Oct 2, 2008
Posts: 573
It's a good thing you didn't bet on your prediction... I didn't try to debunk your tales. I stated that there are good and bad workers in both the PS and the private sector. Or are you going to tell me that you sat on your hole and did no work, took every sick day you could and 'engineered' time off. If so, you should be ashamed of yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Season
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:48 pm 
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Holiday Home Owner
User avatar

Joined: Feb 7, 2008
Posts: 330
I hit every target I was given, typically this took between 1 and 4 hours per day. Overtime was freely available, there was no effort to use flexitime to cover staff shortages or busy periods. Supervisors do not like it when you ask for extra work. I took one sick day I shouldn't have, in five years, because apparently I was required along with three others to staff a helpline - total calls received that day - 13.

Any other questions?

Maybe tell us more about your self employment.

Why should I be ashamed of honesty? I'd much rather work somewhere where promotion/rewards were based on effort and results than time served and ass kissing.


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Season
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:02 pm 
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Property Magnate

Joined: Oct 2, 2008
Posts: 573
And you have just proven my point, thank you. And fair play to you for being an honest and diligent worker, I mean that.
I have been self-employed for about 25 years. Before that I worked in the private sector and before that briefly in semi-state. At this stage of my life I am very sure that in all areas of employment, PS, private and self-employed there are people who are honest in their work practices and there are those who are not. I've also learned that very few people work as hard as they claim to, and that is especially true for my own cohort - the self-employed.


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