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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:37 pm 
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Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
That nobody in Irish public life appears to be even factoring in alternative outcomes is a worry.....you'll note Soros doesn't mention Ireland even once in the course of that article ie we are a tadpole proxy within a Brexit debate that is itself a proxy for bigger, broader issues that are playing themselves out across the continent and beyond.


I would say the Irish Government are sick of hearing these EU demise stories from British diplomats/politicians desperate to get us on board the Brexit train.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:11 pm 
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/opin ... mpire.html
Quote:
The Malign Incompetence of the British Ruling Class
Britain’s rupture with the European Union is proving to be another act of moral dereliction by the country’s rulers. The Brexiteers, pursuing a fantasy of imperial-era strength and self-sufficiency, have repeatedly revealed their hubris, mulishness and ineptitude over the past two years. Though originally a “Remainer,” Prime Minister Theresa May has matched their arrogant obduracy, imposing a patently unworkable timetable of two years on Brexit and laying down red lines that undermined negotiations with Brussels and doomed her deal to resoundingly bipartisan rejection this week in Parliament.

Such a pattern of egotistic and destructive behavior by the British elite flabbergasts many people today. But it was already manifest seven decades ago during Britain’s rash exit from India.

From David Cameron, who recklessly gambled his country’s future on a referendum in order to isolate some whingers in his Conservative Party, to the opportunistic Boris Johnson, who jumped on the Brexit bandwagon to secure the prime ministerial chair once warmed by his role model Winston Churchill, and the top-hatted, theatrically retro Jacob Rees-Mogg, whose fund management company has set up an office within the European Union even as he vehemently scorns it, the British political class has offered to the world an astounding spectacle of mendacious, intellectually limited hustlers.

There is more.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:36 pm 
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BottomsUp wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/opinion/sunday/brexit-ireland-empire.html
Quote:
The Malign Incompetence of the British Ruling Class
Britain’s rupture with the European Union is proving to be another act of moral dereliction by the country’s rulers. The Brexiteers, pursuing a fantasy of imperial-era strength and self-sufficiency, have repeatedly revealed their hubris, mulishness and ineptitude over the past two years. Though originally a “Remainer,” Prime Minister Theresa May has matched their arrogant obduracy, imposing a patently unworkable timetable of two years on Brexit and laying down red lines that undermined negotiations with Brussels and doomed her deal to resoundingly bipartisan rejection this week in Parliament.

Such a pattern of egotistic and destructive behavior by the British elite flabbergasts many people today. But it was already manifest seven decades ago during Britain’s rash exit from India.

From David Cameron, who recklessly gambled his country’s future on a referendum in order to isolate some whingers in his Conservative Party, to the opportunistic Boris Johnson, who jumped on the Brexit bandwagon to secure the prime ministerial chair once warmed by his role model Winston Churchill, and the top-hatted, theatrically retro Jacob Rees-Mogg, whose fund management company has set up an office within the European Union even as he vehemently scorns it, the British political class has offered to the world an astounding spectacle of mendacious, intellectually limited hustlers.

There is more.


Ah the buck passing demonisation (and ad hominem) begins (NYT = Propaganda asset) An opinion piece constructed out of the same old tired characterisations rolled out ad nauseum at this point with no recognition of the will and consent of the people of getting down and dealing with a people lead reality. A marked difference. The British "elite" here are being scolded for letting the people loose in the matrix and given a last chance to sort this mess out.

The concluding paragraph reads:

Quote:
Humiliations in neo-imperialist ventures abroad, followed by the rolling calamity of Brexit at home, have cruelly exposed the bluff of what Hannah Arendt called the “quixotic fools of imperialism.” As partition comes home, threatening bloodshed in Ireland and secession in Scotland, and an unimaginable chaos of no-deal Brexit looms, ordinary British people stand to suffer from the untreatable exit wounds once inflicted by Britain’s bumbling chumocrats on millions of Asians and Africans. More ugly historical ironies may yet waylay Britain on its treacherous road to Brexit. But it is safe to say that a long-cosseted British ruling class has finally come to the end of itself as it was.


Sinister warning.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:25 am 
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Quote:
We had hoped Poland's foreign minister was a different drummer marching in another direction when he broke ranks with the EU band, suggesting last month that Ireland has "treated the UK harshly" over the backstop.

It now looks as though it could be Ireland that is out of step, not Poland's Jacek Czaputowicz.
Had our confidence in our position not been fortified by cast-iron commitments from top brass in Brussels? Perhaps.

But across the water, Theresa May and the Ultras had waged a €39bn bet (the price of the EU divorce bill) on Ireland being forced into diluting the backstop once the EU was confronted with the prospect of losing the pot. And with just six weeks to go to Brexit, it looks as if the gamble could pay off.

A forthright and frankly chilling interview with someone described as a "senior EU diplomat" yesterday came like a glass of cold water in the face.

The un-named source said: "In a no-deal scenario, Ireland would have to choose between setting up a physical Border with Northern Ireland and de facto leaving the single market. If there is no physical Border, the customs checks would have to take place on all goods coming from Ireland."


So we bring in a hard Border or leave the single market. It's really that stark. A blunt "our way or the highway" ultimatum, veiled in the velvet language only anonymity allows. No matter how much Iveagh House may try to calm nerves these quotes cannot be dismissed.

They were carried by the Reuters news agency - the go-to source favoured by the EU when feeding unpalatable truths into the mainstream.


https://m.independent.ie/opinion/editor ... 18812.html

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:07 am 
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Joined: Jul 24, 2018
Posts: 121
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
Quote:
We had hoped Poland's foreign minister was a different drummer marching in another direction when he broke ranks with the EU band, suggesting last month that Ireland has "treated the UK harshly" over the backstop.

It now looks as though it could be Ireland that is out of step, not Poland's Jacek Czaputowicz.
Had our confidence in our position not been fortified by cast-iron commitments from top brass in Brussels? Perhaps.

But across the water, Theresa May and the Ultras had waged a €39bn bet (the price of the EU divorce bill) on Ireland being forced into diluting the backstop once the EU was confronted with the prospect of losing the pot. And with just six weeks to go to Brexit, it looks as if the gamble could pay off.

A forthright and frankly chilling interview with someone described as a "senior EU diplomat" yesterday came like a glass of cold water in the face.

The un-named source said: "In a no-deal scenario, Ireland would have to choose between setting up a physical Border with Northern Ireland and de facto leaving the single market. If there is no physical Border, the customs checks would have to take place on all goods coming from Ireland."


So we bring in a hard Border or leave the single market. It's really that stark. A blunt "our way or the highway" ultimatum, veiled in the velvet language only anonymity allows. No matter how much Iveagh House may try to calm nerves these quotes cannot be dismissed.

They were carried by the Reuters news agency - the go-to source favoured by the EU when feeding unpalatable truths into the mainstream.


https://m.independent.ie/opinion/editor ... 18812.html


Beautiful non sequitur from the Indo as usual. No idea what the first part has to do with the second.
The backstop etc is to avoid a hard border
No deal - hard border. I dont mean to be blunt but is there something in this that doesnt compute. Its not rocket science, its not even difficult to understand.
The indo says its real that stark. Id say its really that bleedin obvious
Typical drivel by the legacy media


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:43 am 
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Joined: May 18, 2007
Posts: 6377
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propertyspire wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
Quote:
We had hoped Poland's foreign minister was a different drummer marching in another direction when he broke ranks with the EU band, suggesting last month that Ireland has "treated the UK harshly" over the backstop.

It now looks as though it could be Ireland that is out of step, not Poland's Jacek Czaputowicz.
Had our confidence in our position not been fortified by cast-iron commitments from top brass in Brussels? Perhaps.

But across the water, Theresa May and the Ultras had waged a €39bn bet (the price of the EU divorce bill) on Ireland being forced into diluting the backstop once the EU was confronted with the prospect of losing the pot. And with just six weeks to go to Brexit, it looks as if the gamble could pay off.

A forthright and frankly chilling interview with someone described as a "senior EU diplomat" yesterday came like a glass of cold water in the face.

The un-named source said: "In a no-deal scenario, Ireland would have to choose between setting up a physical Border with Northern Ireland and de facto leaving the single market. If there is no physical Border, the customs checks would have to take place on all goods coming from Ireland."


So we bring in a hard Border or leave the single market. It's really that stark. A blunt "our way or the highway" ultimatum, veiled in the velvet language only anonymity allows. No matter how much Iveagh House may try to calm nerves these quotes cannot be dismissed.

They were carried by the Reuters news agency - the go-to source favoured by the EU when feeding unpalatable truths into the mainstream.


https://m.independent.ie/opinion/editor ... 18812.html


Beautiful non sequitur from the Indo as usual. No idea what the first part has to do with the second.
The backstop etc is to avoid a hard border
No deal - hard border. I dont mean to be blunt but is there something in this that doesnt compute. Its not rocket science, its not even difficult to understand.
The indo says its real that stark. Id say its really that bleedin obvious
Typical drivel by the legacy media


Depends on what Irelands primary intent is in all of this ie Is it to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland, or is it to defend the fortunes of the EU and the political elite who run it?

Since Brexit was decided upon these two aspirational ideals have intersected somewhat thereby eliminating the need for any real decisions to be taken on the part of the Irish Givernment and Diplomatic service. What happens if it becomes apparent that these two outcomes are no longer fully compatible with one another (as is quite possible over the coming weeks) ? What then from Varadkar and co?

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:35 am 
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Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 31932
Location: Tullamore
https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-co ... t-jackpot/
Quote:
But in the ongoing Westminster chaos on Thursday night, something significant happened and it received very little attention.

Theresa May lost one more vote: the European Research Group led by Jacob Rees-Mogg failed to back her.

The prime minister couldn’t face one more round of humiliation so she stayed out of the Westminster chamber. But the DUP backed her. They took a different stance to their up to now New Best Friends, the ERG.

Could this be the first sign of the DUP heading towards the middle ground, the land of compromise they entered when Ian Paisley led the party into Stormont power-sharing 12 years ago?

A less kind view is that the DUP have nailed their colours to another sinking ship.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:18 pm 
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Joined: Jan 7, 2008
Posts: 658
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
Depends on what Irelands primary intent is in all of this ie Is it to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland, or is it to defend the fortunes of the EU and the political elite who run it?

Since Brexit was decided upon these two aspirational ideals have intersected somewhat thereby eliminating the need for any real decisions to be taken on the part of the Irish Givernment and Diplomatic service. What happens if it becomes apparent that these two outcomes are no longer fully compatible with one another (as is quite possible over the coming weeks) ? What then from Varadkar and co?


Play the long game. After a no-deal Brexit, yes we may have to erect a border. But the UK will still be looking to sign an FTA with the EU. What do you think our precondition would be?


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:05 pm 
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tinneym wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
Depends on what Irelands primary intent is in all of this ie Is it to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland, or is it to defend the fortunes of the EU and the political elite who run it?

Since Brexit was decided upon these two aspirational ideals have intersected somewhat thereby eliminating the need for any real decisions to be taken on the part of the Irish Givernment and Diplomatic service. What happens if it becomes apparent that these two outcomes are no longer fully compatible with one another (as is quite possible over the coming weeks) ? What then from Varadkar and co?


Play the long game. After a no-deal Brexit, yes we may have to erect a border. But the UK will still be looking to sign an FTA with the EU. What do you think our precondition would be?


Fair point....assuming our interests get an airing during any such negotiations

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:53 pm 
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Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
tinneym wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
Depends on what Irelands primary intent is in all of this ie Is it to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland, or is it to defend the fortunes of the EU and the political elite who run it?

Since Brexit was decided upon these two aspirational ideals have intersected somewhat thereby eliminating the need for any real decisions to be taken on the part of the Irish Givernment and Diplomatic service. What happens if it becomes apparent that these two outcomes are no longer fully compatible with one another (as is quite possible over the coming weeks) ? What then from Varadkar and co?


Play the long game. After a no-deal Brexit, yes we may have to erect a border. But the UK will still be looking to sign an FTA with the EU. What do you think our precondition would be?


Fair point....assuming our interests get an airing during any such negotiations


Well we know the German's and Polish government would sell us out. But I was just thinking yesterday how bloody lucky we are that all that all French people are united by one thing - they hate little Englanders.


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