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 Post subject: Re: The International Trade (War) Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:06 pm 
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:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: The International Trade (War) Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:11 pm 
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That wasn't a joke, by the way, just an allusion.
I thought I'd better say, in case anyone thinks I'm utterly heartless, rather than just mostly heartless. :wink:

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People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.


Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations
Book I, Chapter X, Part II,


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 Post subject: Re: The International Trade (War) Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:18 pm 
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Madness of Crowds wrote:
The aggregate benefit of hundreds of millions of Chinese becoming richer appears to be greater than the aggregate disbenefit of a few million, or even a few tens of millions of Americans becoming poorer, so in straightforward utilitarian terms, Eschatologist is correct. Still, it's unlikely many people take much personal satisfaction from being one of the eggs cracked into making the omelette.

I'm not trying to offset the happiness of the average Chinese against the misery of the average American.

I simply don't think America has a wealth problem. It has a wealth distribution problem.

Look at GDP per capita adjusted for PPP. They're 12th.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD

USA: $57,638.2
China: $15,529.1

Look at who is above USA. If you remove all the oil and city states you're left with.....Ireland. Which is pretty much a city state.

Lots of prosperous, happy countries in the 40k-50k region.

What level of GDP per capita would the US require to rob Trump of his core? There is no answer, because more GDP per capita isn't the answer to the USA's problems.

So, maybe trade barriers are the solution, as long as the US is happier being poorer in the aggregate in order to fill the order books of some steel plants.

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 Post subject: Re: The International Trade (War) Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:56 pm 
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Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
Eschatologist wrote:
yoganmahew wrote:
Pah. The American economy and American businesses are built on the quick buck. As soon as they can outsource it, they're off. I look at the company I work for, American born and bred, created the industry, was once the world leader. Now spends all its time cutting expensive (experienced) American workers to outsource to Poland and India. Mostly to India at this stage.

Unfettered capitalism is America's problem. Making everyone else poor too isn't going to solve that.

This is capitalism working properly, improving living conditions for hundreds of millions of people around the world. China used to have 97% of it's population engaged in agriculture.

Using trade barriers in an attempt to turn back the clock to some kind of post-war golden age of US manufacturing isn't going to work, it's just going to make Americans poorer because the products they consume are going to get more expensive.

Might keep Tesla around for a while longer though.


The middle class is getting poorer and the factory jobs/blue collar workers have disappeared so what is the incentive to maintain the status quo for these people? The fear that they might not be able to afford the latest smartphone ? What good is that if your only viable jobs are uber or deliveroo


Are the trade deals with Canada responsible for this? Have any trade deals or tariffs been pointed out as what is causing the problem? The reaction to Trudeau saying that Canada would retaliate to US tariffs with tariffs of their own was pretty ridiculous.


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 Post subject: Re: The International Trade (War) Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:03 am 
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More statements of the obvious in language that even a Trump supporter could understand. Probably.

Tariffs Won’t Make America Great Again
https://www.pragcap.com/tariffs-wont-ma ... ica-great/

Quote:
The bottom line is it costs more to build stuff in the USA because we are better off than many other regions of the world. And by outsourcing the production of many goods and services we make some workers worse off while making those products cheaper for everyone in the USA. This is a good trade for a country where prices are inherently higher. Raising prices on these goods via tariffs doesn’t fix the problem it tries to solve and won’t lead to a trade surplus or fairer trade. In fact, it just results in higher costs for US consumers which makes most of us worse off.

NB – One result of increasing globalization is that more of national income has flowed to corporations which has led to higher inequality. But again, inequality is a problem that tariffs won’t fix. Unfortunately, much of the populism we are seeing today seems to be aimed at globalization when it should be aimed at inequality.

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 Post subject: Re: The International Trade (War) Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:58 am 
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Quote:
Why China Has Already Lost the Trade War
China is dependent on exports to the US and foreign exchange reserves.

The major developed economies have allowed China to get away with its protectionism and interventionism measures because it was the engine of growth of the world economy.

Many talk about trade war as if it were something new and unexpected, but it’s not. The world has been in a trade war for years. The United States has denounced trade barriers imposed by China, the European Union, and other countries for many years, and the World Trade Organization did little about it. The 2017 National Trade Estimate Report on Foreign Trade Barriers filled more than 70 pages outlining direct barriers imposed on the export of U.S. goods and services.
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What the Trump administration is doing now is a negotiation tactic—aggressive, bulldozer-type, and, of course, risky.
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China needs the U.S. surplus more than the United States needs China’s trade and finances. And that is why the trade war will not happen—because China has already lost.
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China’s currency is not backed by either global use nor gold—not at all. It is as unsupported as any fiat currency, like the U.S. dollar, but much less traded and used as a store of value. China’s gold reserves are an insignificant fraction of its money supply.
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Also, contrary to popular opinion, China does not have a nuclear option on the U.S. debt. For once, it is not the main owner of U.S. bonds, not even close; China has less than 8.6 percent of U.S. bonds outstanding.
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The Federal Reserve and the main U.S. Fixed Income funds could buy the bonds in a very short period of time, a week at most. Whether the central bank of the United States or the central bank of China owns the Treasury bonds doesn’t make a difference to the broader U.S. money supply.


Read the article in its entirety. It's worth it. https://www.theepochtimes.com/why-china ... 94509.html

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 Post subject: Re: The International Trade (War) Thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:51 pm 
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It looks like the Yanks are taking the China/US trade war to the next level by arresting the CFO of Huawei in Canada and seeking her extradition to the US. This comes on the back of a couple of Telco's backing out of using them as a vendor for their 5G kit in Britain, Australia and NZ.

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 Post subject: Re: The International Trade (War) Thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:07 pm 
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tulip wrote:
It looks like the Yanks are taking the China/US trade war to the next level by arresting the CFO of Huawei in Canada and seeking her extradition to the US. This comes on the back of a couple of Telco's backing out of using them as a vendor for their 5G kit in Britain, Australia and NZ.


This looks like the key take away, less Trade War more Cold War.

Quote:
The company was already under scrutiny by US intelligence officials who deemed the company a national security threat.


You have to go back to stories like ithe below in May of this year, to get a better view on the long game and to what is really going on. The infiltration by communist China deep into the US and US military infrastructure and personnel seems to be what is at play here, nor is it by accident.

Quote:
Washington (AFP) - Personnel on US military bases can no longer buy phones and other gear manufactured by Chinese firms Huawei and ZTE, after the Pentagon said the devices pose an "unacceptable" security risk.

Read More https://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-milit ... nance.html


Basically even as a consumer, you have to treat anything electronic manufactured in China especially by Chinese companies as spyware if it has a camera, mic and can connect to the net. I would include Toys in that.

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 Post subject: Re: The International Trade (War) Thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:49 am 
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There was an incident discovered earlier in the year where a lot of US Internet traffic from one of their Telco's was being routed through China Telecom and then back. It appears they have become quite brazen of late. I'll see if I can find the link.

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 Post subject: Re: The International Trade (War) Thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:14 pm 
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Quote:
Huawei look to be letting GCHQ into their equipment in Britain.

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