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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2019
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:27 am 
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Buster wrote:
It’s one thing for her to be getting 50k a year from government. She has six kids. It’s the fact that she appears to have no appreciation for the fact that her fellow citizens are carrying her is what annoys people. And rightly so.

It strikes me that we're probably paying more for her B&B than the price of a house rental or even a mortgage. If that's the case, then she, and we, have every right to be incensed. The system is bonkers. Ok, if she's holding out for a "forever home" in her favourite Tallaght estate, then she can get stuffed. But let's not get distracted from the housing fiasco by one lone parent who we're going to be paying for no matter where she's accommodated.

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2019
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:59 am 
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Buster wrote:
FTBer wrote:
NegativeEquity wrote:
FTBer wrote:
Is this budget slightly aimed at the social welfare citizens, in the hope of peeling a few percentage off Sinn Fein’s vote in the next election?


Bingo, trying to out Sinn Fein Sinn Fein

I just can’t really figure out why they bothered, because I feel the cohort that vote SF are not really going to now start voting FG. That cohort still believe they are hard done by and “get nothing” from the Government, which is the sentiment that M Cash pushes.

Unless it’s a really advanced ploy to gather some second & third preference votes ahead of FF... which would be a master stroke if that’s the intent. I’d almost admire that. Almost.


People need to start calling this sh1t out.

It’s one thing for her to be getting 50k a year from government. She has six kids. It’s the fact that she appears to have no appreciation for the fact that her fellow citizens are carrying her is what annoys people. And rightly so.


Seven, of course that may well change in the next nine months

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2019
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:09 am 
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slasher wrote:
Quote:

In conversation with The Irish Times after holding a press conference to discuss future plans for the Web Summit, Mr Cosgrave said he hoped the new measures were due to “blind idiocy,’ rather than being the result of “someone getting paid off somewhere”.

He criticised in particular the decision to give uncapped mortgage deductibility to landlords.

“Not even Donald Trump dared to go that far in his giveaway to the 1 per cent,” he added.

Mr Cosgrave, a long-time critic of the Government’s attempts to resolve the housing crisis, said the mortgage deductibility measure was nothing more than a “tax break for the super rich.”




This attention whore is apparently unaware of how the US treats interest on investment. I.e. it's fully deductible

There's no chance of a proper critique of anything when rubbish like this gets all the attention


US also allows owner occupiers to fully deduct mortgage interest from income tax - and runs a far more benign regime of personal taxation than Ireland does.

How does this spoofer get the airtime?


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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2019
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:24 pm 
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Skippy 3 wrote:

US also allows owner occupiers to fully deduct mortgage interest from income tax - and runs a far more benign regime of personal taxation than Ireland does.

How does this spoofer get the airtime?


Why should an Irish LL be allowed to deduct mortgage interest from income tax and not an Irish Citizen on their PPR?

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2019
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:27 pm 
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tulip wrote:
Skippy 3 wrote:

US also allows owner occupiers to fully deduct mortgage interest from income tax - and runs a far more benign regime of personal taxation than Ireland does.

How does this spoofer get the airtime?


Why should an Irish LL be allowed to deduct mortgage interest from income tax and not an Irish Citizen on their PPR?


Because landlording is a commercial activity, and businesses is generally taxed on profits not revenues.

Treating housing expenses as an "allowable expense" of your employment would destroy the income tax system. What about food? I have to eat to work. Heating costs? Nobody would pay any income tax at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2019
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:48 pm 
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Eschatologist wrote:
tulip wrote:
Skippy 3 wrote:

US also allows owner occupiers to fully deduct mortgage interest from income tax - and runs a far more benign regime of personal taxation than Ireland does.

How does this spoofer get the airtime?


Why should an Irish LL be allowed to deduct mortgage interest from income tax and not an Irish Citizen on their PPR?


Because landlording is a commercial activity, and businesses is generally taxed on profits not revenues.

Treating housing expenses as an "allowable expense" of your employment would destroy the income tax system. What about food? I have to eat to work. Heating costs? Nobody would pay any income tax at all.


That's sounds like a good point to start any budget. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2019
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:29 pm 
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Eschatologist wrote:
tulip wrote:
Skippy 3 wrote:

US also allows owner occupiers to fully deduct mortgage interest from income tax - and runs a far more benign regime of personal taxation than Ireland does.

How does this spoofer get the airtime?


Why should an Irish LL be allowed to deduct mortgage interest from income tax and not an Irish Citizen on their PPR?


Because landlording is a commercial activity, and businesses is generally taxed on profits not revenues.

Treating housing expenses as an "allowable expense" of your employment would destroy the income tax system. What about food? I have to eat to work. Heating costs? Nobody would pay any income tax at all.


I would contend that Landlording is an investment rather than a business? I could argue I invested in my PPR like a LL, I pay expenses towards it's upkeep, currently my "investment" hedges me against rent price fluctuations, when I retire and I've paid off my mortgage, my investment pays me a return by not having to pay rent and then when I'm enfeebled the state will sell it to pay for my nursing home.

The Government arbitrarily decides one is an investment and the other isn' because it suits it's purpose. Interest relief is a social welfare payment to the mortgage holder, allowing interest as an expense for LLs is social welfare for the LL.

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2019
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:56 pm 
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When you take out a mortgage you get the benefit of shelter. The interest is the cost of shelter.

When a landlord does this he sells the shelter on and pays tax on any profit. (You do realise he can only write off the interest portion and not the full repayment?)

Similarly when you take out a car loan you can't write off the interest but Hertz do, they rent the cars and pay tax on the difference. It's not charity for Hertz.

Quote:
The Government arbitrarily decides one is an investment and the other isn't because it suits it's purpose


It's basically the same in every other developed country. Not just this Gubberment.

Quote:
Why should an Irish LL be allowed to deduct mortgage interest from income tax


It's only deductible against rental income. Not other income


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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2019
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:06 pm 
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tulip wrote:
I would contend that Landlording is an investment rather than a business?

Landlording is a business activity. It leverages capital with debt and utilises labour to provide a service. There is an investment element (return on capital) but it's not solely an investment because it requires effort.

Owning shares in a REIT is a pure investment, but the REIT then funds the business activity of landlording.

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2019
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:19 pm 
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If I, as an individual, take out a loan to buy shares as an investment I can't write off the interest against tax - why should I be allowed to do so when the investment is a property?

I have no problem with the interest write off when the landlord is incorporated as a business and they are in the business of providing shelter and the house is an asset of the business and not a personal asset. For an individual who is essentially lending their house on a short term basis I see no reason to allow this - there is nothing to stop me buying a house for , say, my kids , charging them a rent somewhere above the interest and therefore getting my loan (on an asset that will ultimately belong to me) paid by the taxpayer as a result of the foregone taxes.

Back in the 80s as an individual you could write off ALL interest payments including personal loans , car loans, mortgage etc against tax - that is at least consistent. It was, however, heavily biased towards the wealthy who were the only ones who could get credit then. For that reason it was dropped except for mortgage interest relief which was steadily eroded away - mainly because it was seen as a cause of credit, and therefore house price, inflation


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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2019
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:31 pm 
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metalmike wrote:
I have no problem with the interest write off when the landlord is incorporated as a business and they are in the business of providing shelter and the house is an asset of the business and not a personal asset

From what I've read the main obstacle to this reasonable state of affairs is that banks won't lend to small companies in this way, they'll only lend to individuals. I don't know how true it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2019
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:01 pm 
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If you're buying shares in a limited company the company invariably has debt and already uses that tax shield/deduction before paying out dividends to shareholders/you. If you buy the shares via a tax free fund/pension it's essentially the same thing.

If a sole trader buys a van to facilitate his window cleaning round the interest is deductible. I don't see why he needs the expense of incorporation

Corporation tax is doubled for Irish companies holding residential property


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